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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 1, 2023 20:24:28 GMT -6
Interesting concept
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gbguy
Sophomore
Posts: 154
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Post by gbguy on Jan 9, 2023 9:21:35 GMT -6
Meanwhile, UWM goes out and hires a SUCCESSFUL Division II coach and is now leading the Horizon League. We fired a former successful Division II coach who was doing OK here, and hired a mediocre one in his place. No one should be surprised by the results. Beyond frustrating.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 9, 2023 11:20:33 GMT -6
Linc Darner was earning a base salary of $240,000. Will Ryan earns a base salary of $175,000. Bart Lundy earns a base salary of $350,000.
If the decision is made to make a coaching a change they damn sure better be willing to pay $300,000 or more for the next coach. If you want to have the best chance to land a proven winner you can't cut financial corners. I can say with a high level of confidence that if the GB was willing to pay $300,000 plus back in June of 2020, Brad Soderberg would have been named as the coach of the Phoenix. I don't know how he would have done but I am confident in telling you that he wasn't coming here for $175,000 per year.
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Post by kmell822 on Jan 9, 2023 12:28:36 GMT -6
Gotta pay to play.
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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 9, 2023 12:43:54 GMT -6
Green Bay has proven they can afford to pay two basketball coaches combined 415k a year so my expectation is our next coach will get paid that much. Ha!
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 9, 2023 13:11:57 GMT -6
Green Bay has proven they can afford to pay two basketball coaches combined 415k a year so my expectation is our next coach will get paid that much. Ha! I like that thinking! A lot of great options exist for any program in the country that is willing to invest in its program. Whenever GB is looking for a coach again here are some general price points that I think are important to consider. I think at 200k or less you are hoping for a lottery ticket hire. I think from 200k to 300k you are getting a pool of people that don't have D1 head coaching experience or didn't much success as a D1 head coach. I think at 300k plus to get a good pool of candidates including people with D1 head coaching experience or significant lower level success. I think at 400k plus you get a for sure no brainer. I think at 500k plus you get a for sure no brainer that is only leaving for a high major job. I know people say that money doesn't exist. I say BS. The university budget is something like 145 million dollars. We are talking about increasing an existing expense by 200k to 300k which is less than 2/10 of one percent of their budget. I know that money exists, you can't tell me every penny is spent with no room for future increases. They have to make a case to the leaders on why they need to be willing to spend it whenever that time comes.
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gbguy
Sophomore
Posts: 154
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Post by gbguy on Jan 9, 2023 15:13:56 GMT -6
If the money exists in Milwaukee, it can exist in Green Bay. And if they can't do more than $175,000, maybe Division 1 basketball isn't for them.
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Post by cuchillo on Jan 9, 2023 15:23:30 GMT -6
I will go to my grave believing Guthrie axed Darner because he thought he could get Grzesk cheaply, and when that didn't pan out he was stuck. Here we sit now.
I agree the administration needs to commit to D1, and if not then move down. Don't say you want to stay in D1 and then not support it. Crap or get off the pot.
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Post by fansincebuss on Jan 9, 2023 16:03:33 GMT -6
I will go to my grave believing Guthrie axed Darner because he thought he could get Grzesk cheaply, and when that didn't pan out he was stuck. Here we sit now. I agree the administration needs to commit to D1, and if not then move down. Don't say you want to stay in D1 and then not support it. Crap or get off the pot. You may be correct about Guthrie thinking he could get Grzesk cheaply,but I don't think we would have been much better off with Grzesk.
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Post by cockandbull on Jan 9, 2023 16:07:51 GMT -6
While I still have not jumped completely of the Will Ryan train, I've made my way to the caboose and am just waiting for a soft spot to land. Too much this year has led me to believe he is not the right person for this job and frankly is in over his head.
My biggest concern has become is the school willing to move on before this program gets to a level it can not easily get out of. Once you hit rock bottom (where frankly we are at), it is not easy to get out. This has become increasingly more difficult with the ease of transfer portal. Without significant change to this program, I am expecting 8-10 new guys on the roster every year. That will not get us out of this hole. That is trying to catch lightning in a bottle which isn't easy and Ryan and his staff have given me no reason to believe they can identify and hit on the right group of guys to make it work. Sure Cade, CC and Blake have shown they are D1 talent, but that ain't enough and who believes all 3 of them will be back next year? It's just all really frustrating and as an alumni and fan I just don't want to see us get to a level we can't get back from. Hopefully we are not already there.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 9, 2023 16:08:11 GMT -6
UWM has an annual budget that is about 4x what UWGB does. If anything people should be wondering what in the hell UWM is doing with a school of that size. They should be able to outspend what is left of the rest of the Horizon League by a wide margin.
As for GB, I don't like that the institution does not give it the proper financial support. From what I can see it doesn't look like the UW system gives UWGB the proper support either so this problem might be way too deep for our message board. I will say that I would still take being a bottom feeder in D1 over being in D2. Every once in awhile they would still get lucky enough to make the big dance and that would still be more fun than being in D2. I would just have to reset my program expectations and wait until they get lucky with the roster every 20 years or so.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 9, 2023 16:16:29 GMT -6
While I still have not jumped completely of the Will Ryan train, I've made my way to the caboose and am just waiting for a soft spot to land. Too much this year has led me to believe he is not the right person for this job and frankly is in over his head. My biggest concern has become is the school willing to move on before this program gets to a level it can not easily get out of. Once you hit rock bottom (where frankly we are at), it is not easy to get out. This has become increasingly more difficult with the ease of transfer portal. Without significant change to this program, I am expecting 8-10 new guys on the roster every year. That will not get us out of this hole. That is trying to catch lightning in a bottle which isn't easy and Ryan and his staff have given me no reason to believe they can identify and hit on the right group of guys to make it work. Sure Cade, CC and Blake have shown they are D1 talent, but that ain't enough and who believes all 3 of them will be back next year? It's just all really frustrating and as an alumni and fan I just don't want to see us get to a level we can't get back from. Hopefully we are not already there. I am starting to feel like rock bottom isn't a hole too deep to dig out of for those that would be willing. The portal does take away but it can also give. If things never get better, all GB would have to do is hire a coach for 350k with some personality and a pedigree. To the earlier post today, UWM reloaded via the portal and JUCO route with a more proven coach, they have had early success. If things don't work out, it would seem GB could easily do what UWM did and to a lesser extent what YSU did with Calhoun. I wouldn't give up hope for the program even if you have given up hope for the coach.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Jan 9, 2023 17:12:40 GMT -6
Having covered University of Virginia a number of years ago, I follow the Cavs pretty closely, especially since Tony Bennett took over the program. (After my UWGB student days, I was a TV reporter in the UVA Terry Holland Era)
Last weekend, Bennett became the winningest coach in school history. He had some interesting things to say during the post-game interview. He said the best coaching advise on rebuilding a program that he ever received was from his father. Dick Bennett told him to hire a staff and find players who understood and could accept that they would face losing for a number of seasons.
The elder Bennett was a veteran teacher and coach when he arrived in Green Bay. Still, it took him a handful of seasons to build the Nix. It was a different era, but he faced similar financial challenges.
Will Ryan came into a bigger mess than Dick Bennett faced, both in terms of the past management of the athletic department, community disinterest, the economy and the worst pandemic since 1919. The other fact, the younger Ryan is a work in progress. Ryan and Company made a decision to focus recruitment on high school players. (Mostly in-state) This would be the future core of the team. Like many mid-majors JUCOs have been recruited as stop-gaps.
In the current environment for mid-major programs -- is this a solid approach? If the Nix can hold onto the impressive high school recruits and use a form of the Ryan system his father developed, GB will have something. The Kamari McGee transfer was a total gut punch for the rebuild and public perception of the effort.
Still, this season I keep seeing glimpses of what might be possible. Facing what Will faced going in, if I was a coach, I’m not sure I would have taken the assignment. To the posters on this message board – lend a hand, buy some tickets, or donate to the athletic fund.
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gbguy
Sophomore
Posts: 154
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Post by gbguy on Jan 12, 2023 20:23:56 GMT -6
Tulsa, Bennett has a winning record his second year here. I wasn’t around here that long ago, but my guess is that it was pretty clear that he was a good coach pretty early on.
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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 14, 2023 22:03:24 GMT -6
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