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Post by shooting the J on Apr 2, 2015 5:15:03 GMT -6
That's great news. His cheating runs far deeper than what he's been caught doing. He didn't deserve the opportunity to interview here. If it was that bad why did Iowa State bring him back? Him and Hoiberg operate the same way.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 2, 2015 6:17:44 GMT -6
I have to take a little issue with the article by Pete Dougherty. I think some of it was being a romantic about the past and not being realistic. First, it mentions that Bennett and Ryan built up UW to national championship levels, I won't dispute that. However, we need to concern ourselves with the body of work at the mid major level. Bo Ryan was 30-27 overall and 13-15 in the horizon league in his two seasons at Milwaukee. With the best player in Green Bay history and one of the best ever in the state, Tony Bennett, GB went 42-14 in conference play. They went to two NIT's and one NCAA tournament. In Tony's senior year they lost in the conference tournament despite being 14-2 in the league and then lost in the NIT. This is a sin that had the natives restless about Brian Wardle. After that year Dick went 9-7 in league play before retooling with another future NBA player in Jeff Nordgaard. I know Jeff was lightly recruited for hoops and Dick helped to coach him up to the NBA level but in the end we can't forget that he was drafted into the NBA and did have talent. I just think it is important to remember that teaching the game is important but even Dick Bennett needed talent to win at GB. To take a line from Wardle and use it in this context, you can't pretend Dick Bennett did it all with X's and O's when he had some really talented Jimmy's and Joe's. At UW Dick was 37-43 all time in conference. Even in the final four year he was only 8-8. His overall NCAA record was 5-6 (1-5 if you take out the final four run). His NIT record was 2-3. I am just making sure we don't let Gary G. ride in on Dick's legend when it is important to remember he had two really talented players surrounded by good team basketball. As for recruiting its way to success I also think it is important to look at what the other teams in the HL are doing on the talent side. Valpo, Oakland and Detroit are usually full of D1 high major transfers. CSU is going to lose their two best players to most likely Louisville and Ohio State. There is more talent in the league than when Dick was here, this isn't your dad's Mid Con anymore. Teaching the game is one thing but if GB doesn't get players it might not matter as the rest of the league is proving that they will have some combination of talent and coaching. If a team expects to win in the HL they can't have one without the other. There really isn't anything to suggest that Gary G. is any more qualified than any of the other candidates. I don't like the Dick Bennett was great so Gary will be too line of thinking. Dick did a lot for GB and still does. It is just important to remember that he had two really amazing players and even that didn't guarantee his system worked at GB. Making the system work in today's HL is going to require more than what was needed in the old Mid Con and while it was good in the mid con it was powered by talent as well as coaching. If you told me Gary G could get some future NBA players to run his system then I might be for it but the kids I see him recruiting likely won't fit that bill and so I have my doubts on him taking over at GB. Please name those NBA players Dane Fife rolled out at IPFW. Grzesk currently has a terrific athlete at St Norbert in DJ Devalk. He'd be considered a serious athlete at Green Bay. Gary and his staff added shooting to his game, and he had a terrific freshman year. If he can get players like that in De Pere, he'll be able to recruit and develop top level players in Green Bay. I am not sure what Dane Fife has to do with my post. I am simply saying that Pete's article makes it seem like the Bennett way is like the little train that could and it overlooks that it had some really talented players, two of whom made it to the NBA. Coaching is super important but you need players too. Great, Gary has a high level player on his team now. Maybe he can get more if he is at GB but for Pete to imply that great coaching is all GB needs is pretty far from accurate. An article like that is somewhat irresponsible to me. It loads up Gary G. as the guy, gives some reasons why that the average fan will agree with and then indicates that a non D3 guy is a bad hire. Well if we don't end up with Gary as the coach now the new coach is already facing an uphill battle in the community from anyone who read that an agreed with the lack of thought put into it. As for Fife he didn't bring in any NBA players but he did bring in Deilvez Yearby and Frank Gaines, both who have been drafted in the D League. Considering what he had to work with at IPFW that isn't too shabby. Save yourself the google search and rebuttal he did not coach either for 4 years. I am just letting it be known that he was able to acquire some talent that he is not being given credit for.
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Post by gbbrl97 on Apr 2, 2015 8:07:27 GMT -6
What made DB a genius was taking a team of under-recruited players, undersized and average athleticism, but skilled, smart, tough players, and had good basketball IQ's (despite being essentially D2/low major D1 talent with the exception of guys like Tony Bennett, John Martinez before the knee injuries, then the class of Norgaard, Berlowski, and Jackson, (Greszk of that class was a better soccer player in HS and was limited in terms of offensive skill back then) and had them go toe to toe with high major programs as a Mid-Con team (which is now the Summit League) from the mid-to-late 80's to the mid-90's. All of this despite having a practice facility that resembled a D4 high school gym and a weight room that was smaller and less equipped than my old high school (which was a D4 school in central WI), and playing in a small, drafty, old 1950's-era arena, that resembled a large farm implement shed from a farm town from that same D4 school district I came from.....If DB had the Resch Center to play in and the Kress Center as a practice facility, he would have drawn more legitimate mid-major D1 talent to GB and would have had greater depth to draw from. I remember his 94-95 team (which was his best coaching job at GB IMO), where he played 4 guards and Nordgaard, and Kevin Olm was the only bench guy who had meaningful minutes, since we had a lot of youth and no size off the bench, but still got us to NCAA's (with a couple key breaks in the conference tourney).
With the wins he amassed in the late 80's the talent level did get marginally better and set up the next run with Jeff Norgaard, Ben Berlowski, Gary Greszk, and Eric Jackson. But from a top to bottom perspective, we were still lacking size and strength up front, and against tougher competition that played great defense and rebounded well, GB often struggled if they could not hit it from 3pt range. I would like to think that with the facilities we have now we could have recruited some wing players with more size and post player with more length and strength and maybe those tournament runs could have been much deeper.
With Gary's success and the apparent ceiling at SNC, is beyond his control. SNC tuition is one detriment, the other is the MWC conference, which is the bottom 3rd of D3, and the fact that top non-D1 players in WI will most likely gravitate to the WIAC (UWSP, UWW, and UWP being the main culprits) since the tuition is cheaper (which was pointed out previously by knight), and IMO those UW schools will have a wider array of academic programs as nearly all of these kids will not see pro ball. Unless he landed some D1 or D2 transfers year in and year out, I don't see that SNC program getting beyond that first weekend of the D3 tourney unless the WIAC's teams or other teams in that region have an off-night.
I only hope if Gary is hired at GB that he has learned from his experiences and have enough self-awareness to stretch out on the system he runs and the talent he brings to GB. Commit to the pack-line man, but be open to use a 3-2 matchup zone sometimes. Use variations of the motion offense, but be open in using some ball-screen continuity. In other words, be self-aware enough to avoid being too dogmatic. The recruiting footprint set by BW (WI, northern IL, northern IN, MN, and the IA JC's) can be used. But unlike TK and even more so with BW, there has been a skills gap for several years. You saw development in the post players (especially in TK's tenure where we had a glut of stretch-4 players), and Alec Brown, and Greg Mays to a lesser degree in the BW era, but with the guard development, you saw less of that and the past couple years of BW was very evident.
However, we do have to be aware that Gary has had success at D3, but doesn't mean he will suddenly become the 2nd coming of DB......Vince Lombardi had Phil Bengston and when Mike Heideman took over for DB in 1995, we got spoiled initially but it only began a slow, gradual decline into the abyss. As we moved from the Mid-Con to the MCC/Horizon he did not adjust the level of talent to match the rest of the conference. We looked like a D2 team in a D1 conference by the end of 2002. Unlike DB, Heideman could not coach every last bit of talent out of those last teams since there was little talent compared to the rest of the HL, to begin with. Gary could be like Heideman, then again, maybe he has learned from his experiences and avoid those same mistakes made and be a very good HC at GB; But let's not call him a young DB just yet. From a talent development standpoint, it looks like Gary would be a drastic improvement from BW's staff. But if Gary is the man, he will need a mix of teachers and salesmen on his staff and have enough talent to succeed in the current version of the HL.....especially if we take on Murray St., NKU, and especially Belmont (they look like the classic DB teams, but with better talent).
The talk about Drew Deiner is interesting but I don't know enough about NAIA to see if his teams measure up; It looks like a mixed bag of better and worse than D3 based on carr34's assessment. Also sounds like he knows how to get more out of less. If he's hired I would like to see Tom or Dick on his staff or in the program in some capacity as a basketball skills technician a la Woody Wilson. Like with Grezsk, he would need to have a couple superstar recruiters on his staff. With Otzelberger probably out of the running for now, maybe MEG should look at Deiner as well.
Linc Darner is intriguing.....His record at FL Southern is pretty impressive and has taken his teams on deep runs in the D2 tourney and won the D2 Championship this year. Bruce Pearl (regardless of what some of us think of him) did very well at the D2 level at Southern Indiana (and also won a D2 championship) prior to his run at UWM. Is he a guy who will actively sell the program and win over HS coaches in the state (since he will have the disadvantage of not being an in-state guy), but be the requisite salesman this program needs (as we are on a relative outpost location-wise versus the other HL schools)? Also, how is he on player development? If he can get similar level talent to GB like BW did but even be a moderately better player developer, then GB may have a chance to be in the HL mix again sooner rather than later. Maybe we shouldn't discount this guy just yet.....If MEG wants to get away from anyone's coaching tree (Bennett or Crean/TK/Wardle) he could be a serious contender. I would like to know if he has any recruiting connections at the IMG academy in FL?
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Post by gbbrl97 on Apr 2, 2015 8:20:20 GMT -6
Hey GBPhonenix. A sidebar, but on the Brad Soderberg comments you had, here's an article in the WI State Journal about Bo Ryan and the fact that they even considered Soderberg over Ben Braun who was still relevant and had Cal on a great NCAA tourney run in his initial few years there, or over an unparalleled career at D3 with his 4 national titles and 2 undefeated seasons (at that point in time) with Bo Ryan is ridiculous. Majerus would have been a good hire at UW too, but with his on and off health struggles, and the time he needed to care for his sick mother (which caused him to pull out of the USC job after less than a week in 2004), that may have been a distraction that the UW program didn't need at that point in time on the heels of DB's early-season retirement in 2000-2001, and the UW program could have teetered back into the Steve Yoder-like malaise or become a national player Bo has made that program into. host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-bo-ryan-has-silenced-the-critics/article_11e8d966-a3ef-5fdf-96c7-4b22ec0bb2c8.html
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Post by carr34 on Apr 2, 2015 13:34:07 GMT -6
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Post by Fanforever on Apr 2, 2015 14:06:12 GMT -6
I changed my vote to Gary G. from Dane F. I always thought Gary could coach but questioned whether he truly wanted the position and if he was outgoing enough. The first one has been answered by Dick and Tony reaching out on his behalf which they would not have done without his blessing. However, I am not sold on him being outgoing enough but feel he would work on it. I went to college with Gary and have run into him from time to time in Green Bay and he is very nice but comes off as not being very passionate.
The other reason i changed is that I feel this would be a destination job for Gary and he could build a long and consistent winner that we would enjoy watching.
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Post by carr34 on Apr 4, 2015 19:36:24 GMT -6
Venci just tweeted that Drew Diener interviewed this weekend. I am also hearing that a few more HS coaches are on board icluding a couple with some really good recruits for the next couple of years.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Apr 4, 2015 21:07:26 GMT -6
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Post by carr34 on Apr 4, 2015 21:16:49 GMT -6
That is from last year and i am not sure he stayed involved in that one. The article is indicative of the respect that he has garnered over his short time at Stritch. Whenever they play it seems like every coach is at their games. They run some really good stuff and play so damn hard and smart. He will be a stud D1 coach. It is just a matter of which school makes the right call and hires him.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Apr 4, 2015 21:52:45 GMT -6
My bad, I was watching the Wisconsin game and needed to proof the article. Another mistake I made was that the Texas A & M - Kingsville is a D2 school. Other than that I was totally correct ;-)
This is the best field of candidates the school has had in three head coach hiring cycles.
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Post by shooting the J on Apr 5, 2015 9:39:49 GMT -6
Scott Venci undates the coaching search: UWGB interviews 3 candidates at Final FourAmong the updates is the least surprising news to me: Dane Fife isn't interested. Thankfully it looks like we won't be wasting our time on Chris Lowery either.
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Post by shooting the J on Apr 5, 2015 9:59:34 GMT -6
Gary Grzesk is still my guy. I think Drew Diener would win big here too. However, I think Diener would be looking for bigger pastures as soon as possible. Gary is still in De Pere because he doesn't pursue other jobs. Anyone who knows and understands the man knows he could finish his coaching career at UWGB. When picking between 2 great candidates, pick the one that could want to stay.
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Post by carr34 on Apr 5, 2015 11:02:58 GMT -6
Gary Grzesk is still my guy. I think Drew Diener would win big here too. However, I think Diener would be looking for bigger pastures as soon as possible. Gary is still in De Pere because he doesn't pursue other jobs. Anyone who knows and understands the man knows he could finish his coaching career at UWGB. When picking between 2 great candidates, pick the one that could want to stay. Diener might not be a guy that left right away for greener pastures. GB is an hour from his hometown and his family is very, very close. His brother Drake plays in Italy but owns a home in Fond du Lac. Now if he won enough to gain interest from UW or Marquette he would probably leave but I don't see him catching the first train out of town. And lets be real, if Gary won enough to get UW or Marq interest he would probably leave as well. A program should not turn down a coach because he might win too much and eventually leave. Xavier, Butler, Dayton etc...all have programs that thrive coach after coach.
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Post by shooting the J on Apr 5, 2015 11:08:23 GMT -6
Wow, Joe Wolf has thrown his name into the ring. Until recent years, Joe was considered the best high school player in state history. Joe played for Dean Smith at North Carolina, head a long NBA career, and now has worked years as a highly respected NBA assistant. He worked for the Milwaukee Bucks under Scott Skiles. He's more than qualified.
His twin nieces, the Wolf sisters, will be Freshman for the Lady Phoenix next year.
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Post by carr34 on Apr 5, 2015 11:25:43 GMT -6
I believe that Joe wanted the Lakeland job back when they went with Gary. He was a college assistant for one year at, I think, William and Mary. The rest of his coaching was done in the minors and recently as an NBA assistant. Not sure how that translates into being a head coach at a school that will require some big time grinding on the recruiting trail.
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