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Post by can opener man on Sept 27, 2012 17:52:37 GMT -6
sound like to me, he said he had multiple contacts all saying these were the 3 schools
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Post by PantherU on Sept 28, 2012 16:16:25 GMT -6
Hey guys, felt like I should go around explaining things.
I've had conversations with upwards of 25 people around the Horizon League - people I've met through boards, games, working at the school paper or PantherU, etc. They are all kinds - donors, AD employees, fans, bloggers, conference office employees - basically I try to talk to as many people as possible to get as much of the truth as I can.
When you reach a certain number of people who reach a general consensus and you can pretty much verify that these people have never spoken with each other or only have met fleetingly, you can tell that a certain idea has permeated throughout the conference's movers and shakers.
The general consensus I get is: 3 teams, and the three teams I'm hearing far more often than not are Oakland, Belmont, and Evansville (in that order).
This tweet was exactly that - a tweet - not a damn report like everyone keeps saying. I can't confirm anything because, frankly, we're too early in the process for any of these schools to be 100% in. I would love to say that these are definitely the schools, that it is definitely happening, but it's still early in the process. One or all three of these schools may change their tune, or maybe their tune is different than what I've been told.
If there were something to report, you'd see it on the header of PantherU.com. There's nothing to report right now, just a significant amount of movers and shakers who have the same ideas.
When I report something you'll know it's a report.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Oct 1, 2012 16:43:42 GMT -6
Here is a great post from our Wright State friend Big D over on their boardI wouldn't say that. I think Jimmy just jumped the gun a little bit and didn't really present it the best way. He should have put together a well thought out blog story or just a post on one of the message boards instead of announcing it on twitter and explained that those are the 3 names he is hearing the most. The way it came across on twitter, people were thinking he was announcing that it is some sort of done deal and it is no where close to a done deal. I keep hearing 5 names: Oakland, Belmont, Evansville, Murray St, and Robert Morris. Here are the RUMORS I hear about each school. (and I want to emphasize all of this is based on rumors).
Oakland: Oakland wants in. They made it known in the media months ago. The HL wants them in. Well I should say 7 of 9 HL schools want them in or 6 of 9 do. Detroit and Loyola have been holding this up and I hear Valpo might/might not be part of that. Detroit doesn't want them in and Loyola has been backing them up based on old loyalties between the 2 schools. I hear that Oakland will be invited. I hear the rest of the HL has compromised with Detroit and Loyola and agreed to go after 2 private schools if they agree to let Oakland in. I think Valpo is fine with Oakland being part of the HL, but I hear they have been part of that discussion because they also want the HL to go after some private schools (specifically Evansville). Oakland is important to most HL schools. We want a good basketball program first and foremost. They also have a baseball team which is a priority and they give the HL another presence in Michigan which we wanted. HL teams like to recruit Michigan but have not had the success there they would like. Having 2 local schools should help with Michigan recruiting. Oakland gives Detroit a natural travel partner and a built in rival. They also give Valpo a good rival from their Summit days.
Belmont: Belmont offers everything the HL wants except for their location. They have a really good basketball program, baseball team, facilities, fan base, and they spend money on sports. They are one of the few good mid-majors out there without football, so we never have to worry about them jumping conferences based on a football move. They also give us a presence in a new state which opens up a new area for recruiting. From Belmont's side, they have legit interest. They are just entering their first year in the OVC, but the OVC is a much lower rated conference than the HL. The OVC is a 20-25 ranked conference that gets bad NCAA seeds and never gets at large bids. The HL is a 10-15 ranked conference that can get decent seeds and has been able to get at large bids. Travel is an issue, but if the HL divides into 2 six team divisions that travel can be managed. Nashville is also an easy city to travel to by major highways and airfare there is cheap. If we add Evansville, they are only a 2.5 hr drive away which just gave them a travel partner in the HL.
Evansville: Evansville is the team we have to go after to appease Detroit, Loyola and Valpo. They were once in the HL and were a major player in the conference. They moved to the MVC 18 years ago when the HL went through our last major shakeup. I don't think they wanted to leave then. I think they left out of fear that the conference was going under and they didn't want to be left in the dark. They have been in the MVC for 18 years and have struggled in that conference. Their budget is under 10 million a year which is well below most MVC schools. That is a decent budget for the HL though. They have also struggled to develop any rivalries in the MVC. They still have 2 rivals in Loyola and Detroit from their MCC days. They also have an old rivalry with Valpo. They could be ready to come back to the HL because of fear that the MVC is ready for a major shake up. Creighton is being courted by the A-10 and several of their football schools have been looking at their football options. They could very well be ready to move on before they are left in the dark in that conference. From a HL standpoint, they haven't had the kind of success we have been looking for, but they do have some good selling points. They have good potential to improve when they get into the HL. They just built great facilities for basketball. They have a good budget for a HL team. They give us a second presence in the state of Indiana which is huge for the HL because every HL team likes to recruit in Indiana.
Murray St: Murray St is the team most HL fans want and honestly I think most HL schools would prefer them too but the HL will go after Evansville first. If Evansville turns us down I think Murray State would be next on the list. The upside of Murray State is that they have a great basketball team with a good name brand to sell because of their success. They have a baseball team, good facilities, and spend money on their athletics. The downside to them is their location, they have football, and they are not private. Even though geographically they are closer than Belmont, there is no easy way to get there by flight or by driving. You have to worry about them finding a home for their football team and worry about them eventually leaving the HL for a football conference down the line. And they are not private. I don't know if Loyola, Detroit, and Valpo will agree to them.
Robert Morris: If Robert Morris had a baseball team I think they would be number 2 on our wish list. They are in a good location. They are private. They have a good basketball team. If Evansville turns us down, I wouldn't be surprised to see them invited before Murray State just because they are a private school and make good geographic sense being so close to YSU.
These are the rumors I have been hearing from friends around the HL. Take them for what they are worth.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Oct 2, 2012 8:20:50 GMT -6
Thanks for the re-post.
Oakland and Evansville should be prime targets and there should be some enrgy behind the effort.
The six team divisions is another good idea. It will cutdown on travel cost while allowing for a boarder league footprint.
The Horizon has to avoid what the Summit League did. That is a travel nighmare.
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Post by PantherU on Oct 8, 2012 14:57:54 GMT -6
Thanks for the re-post. Oakland and Evansville should be prime targets and there should be some enrgy behind the effort. The six team divisions is another good idea. It will cutdown on travel cost while allowing for a boarder league footprint. The Horizon has to avoid what the Summit League did. That is a travel nightmare. The division idea was something I went over when, if you recall, I put the "big expansion" idea on PantherU. Of course we probably won't be picking up any CAA schools, but you know. I think we will avoid what happened to the Summit League because the SL is, for sure, a "provisional" conference. I define provisional conferences not like the Great West who is new, but rather conferences that would add provisional D-I schools into their membership. The OVC and Summit are the two most relevant provisional conferences to the HL. We have not gone that way - notice that even without Butler, NKU is nowhere close to being a legit candidate.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Oct 10, 2012 16:39:51 GMT -6
I don't often agree with Jimmy on many things that he writes but I do appreciate his effort. I will say that is pretty cool for him that his tweet caused such a stir. In my opinion that is kind of a sign that he is arriving on the HL scene. If some other fan posted that tweet it likely gets brushed over. So at least he can know that his effort is respected enough that it caused a mini stir up since people believed it could be true given the source.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Oct 10, 2012 16:41:58 GMT -6
In a related note I was informed by a visiting poster earlier this year that Belmont was a bad fit because they didn't spend money etc. Now suddenly "They have a really good basketball program, baseball team, facilities, fan base, and they spend money on sports." What changed?
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Post by shooting the J on Oct 12, 2012 5:39:29 GMT -6
In a related note I was informed by a visiting poster earlier this year that Belmont was a bad fit because they didn't spend money etc. Now suddenly "They have a really good basketball program, baseball team, facilities, fan base, and they spend money on sports." What changed? Agreed. This is funny enough that I combined the threads. Belmont continues to be the team I'm excited to add. The best available basketball only mid-major. Travel Nashville is no more worse than it is to Evansville.
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Post by PantherU on Oct 15, 2012 17:02:43 GMT -6
I don't often agree with Jimmy on many things that he writes but I do appreciate his effort. I will say that is pretty cool for him that his tweet caused such a stir. In my opinion that is kind of a sign that he is arriving on the HL scene. If some other fan posted that tweet it likely gets brushed over. So at least he can know that his effort is respected enough that it caused a mini stir up since people believed it could be true given the source. I get to be infamous, awesome lol In reality, I'm no different than Brian Dickmann here, or Peter Skiadopolous at Loyola, or Hank Curry at Valpo, Tom Mieskoski at CSU, Michael Metzinger at YSU, or Big D at WSU. I'm a fan of my program and the conference and I have the journalistic skills to report on it while hopefully making some money on the side to justify the time I put into it. Maybe I carry a little more weight than the other guys because of the booming voice and large physical stature. But they deserve some recognition too. Brian is a rising star, you can be sure he'll be a real great writer some day.
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Post by shooting the J on Oct 17, 2012 6:13:10 GMT -6
Jimmy, have you heard anything on MVC expansion? Are they really considering adding New Mexico St? If they are, that would give Evansville reason to leave. Maybe Bradley could shake loose too? I'd be more excited for Bradley, and they would help balance a division format.
I'd think YSU would get an invite from a football conference at some point that would fit all there sports. Could it end up that the HL adds just 2 teams, or adds 4?
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Post by shooting the J on Dec 29, 2012 11:25:04 GMT -6
The Horizon League is now sitting at 12th in conference RPI entering the final weekend of non-conference play. As I said on our site before the season started, the HL with finish this season ranked higher in RPI without Butler than it finished last season with Butler. ESPN clown Andy Katz called the loss of Butler a deathblow to the conference, even though anyone with a rudimentary understanding of math could see that was not even close to the truth.
The HL lost name recognition and nastalgia with the loss of Butler, but still holds strong in the midwest as a viable alternative to players who don't get high major offers.
The HL is on solid ground will be able to add some outstanding members if it chooses. Belmont has a higher RPI than Butler right now, and was much higher than Butler last year. Belmont would be a terrific addition, The HL needs to move on this before the MVC chooses them as a replacement for Creighton.
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Post by shooting the J on Jan 21, 2013 10:33:36 GMT -6
I DVR'd the CSU game on Time Warner Sports32, and heard some interested expansion talk from commentator Dave Kaplan. Kaplan shared that in a recent conversation with HL commish Jon LeCrone, LeCrone mentioned that some mountain time zone schools called with interest.
While I doubt the HL would expand that far westward, it is interesting that schools would be willing to travel that much just to get into the HL.
Who are they? I'll guess conference-hopping Denver. They were in the Sun Belt last year, and moved to the WAC this year. The WAC would have been a good fit for them, but next years version of that conference will be extremely poor. Denver is set to join the Summit League next year. Denver presently has a RPI of 124 this year, and was 93 last year. The private school has money to spend. I'd guess Idaho might have also called. They've become an independant for football, and are joining the Big Sky for all other sports. New Mexico St is another possibility for the same reasons as Idaho. I could see NM St returning to the MVC to replace Creighton. They were a part of that conference years ago.
I don't think any are a good fit for the HL, just kind of interesting to speculate on the caliber of programs that might want in to the HL. Any other schools from that direction I'm not thinking of?
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Jan 21, 2013 11:48:36 GMT -6
The Horizon needs to stay with the current geographic area or close to it. I'd also prefer schools in urban areas. Oakland should be at the top of the list.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 21, 2013 15:01:35 GMT -6
The Horizon needs to stay with the current geographic area or close to it. I'd also prefer schools in urban areas. Oakland should be at the top of the list. Belmont would be at the top of my list. Idaho and New Mexico State don't do anything for me. As soon as they find a better football home they would be gone. Denver seems a little better in terms of being a fit for the league. I would say Oakland and Denver seem to have similar hoops programs. It is just a matter of do teams want to fly or drive to the game and I think I know the answer.
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Post by shooting the J on Jan 22, 2013 10:10:08 GMT -6
The Horizon needs to stay with the current geographic area or close to it. I'd also prefer schools in urban areas. Oakland should be at the top of the list. Belmont would be at the top of my list. Idaho and New Mexico State don't do anything for me. As soon as they find a better football home they would be gone. Denver seems a little better in terms of being a fit for the league. I would say Oakland and Denver seem to have similar hoops programs. It is just a matter of do teams want to fly or drive to the game and I think I know the answer. I agree that the conference should try to avoid football schools so it can put together a grouping that will stay together long term. Building familiarity builds rivalries, and this conference needs stronger rivalries to increase attendance. A long with avoiding those aforementioned football schools, I'd also avoid Murray St and Robert Morris too. I also agree that Belmont has to be target #1. Slightly out of the HL foot print, but that is the only negative. Strong and still rising program that is on stable ground with a coach too old to get scooped up by a bigger school, but too young to retire. They were top 50 RPI last year, and are 24th this year. Adding a perennial tournament team to the HL would bring attention to the League, and make naysayers like Andy Katz admit their mistake of overlooking the abundant young talent in this conference. With Belmont, the HL would have 9 programs on solid ground, and could dream of breaking into the conference RPIs top ten for the 1st time. Belmont brings another large metro area to the HL, which fits the model. It's private, which would appease Detroit and Loyola, which are pushing for more private schools. They have baseball to appease the baseball schools. While it is slightly outside of the league geographical region, it is easier to travel to than many possible destinations inside the region. Oakland is solid, but doesn't really add anything new. Keep Oakland on a leash for when Ypungstown St finally leaves for football reasons.
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