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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 16, 2022 20:53:24 GMT -6
That's great that UIC is back in. It wouldn't be a men's or women's basketball tournament if they didn't have a chance to flame out.
The entire stunt that UIC pulled here in addition to be a trash basketball program for the better part of 30 years makes me happy they are leaving. The HL is getting better and didn't even have to do anything.
I did read some stuff on the MVC board. Of course the sentiment there is UIC is in the right and the HL is in the wrong. That's fine, UIC is their new flame and they aren't going to wish them ill will. In a year or two when they have buyer's remorse that might be a different story.
What I find interesting about the MVC fan view is they are saying good luck to HL trying to find a 12th member with this recent behavior. Yet a reasonable group of online supporters don't seem to be troubled by a leadership group that was quick to burn bridges and turn on a nasty online smear campaign that they knew was BS just to get their way. Be careful who you make your ally, UIC has showed everyone red, white and blue are not UIC's true colors.
One last thing, people are quick to point out the current leadership didn't propose the current HL bylaws so it's disingenuous to say that UIC is being hypocritical when not upholding them. For starters UIC was quick to release letters and contact information from the HL but never once released their previous requests to propose a bylaw change since this leadership has been in place since 2019. Also, UIC was quick to lean on their history in the league with the following comment: "This decision is shocking and entirely inconsistent with the values of the Horizon League, which UIC helped establish and support for nearly three decades," said Director of Athletics Michael Lipitz. So they can say they are a 30 year members but that they don't have anything to do with bylaws from 9 years ago. Pick a side, you either have history or you don't.
I look forward to them leaving the HL basement and moving to the MVC basement.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on May 7, 2024 7:59:23 GMT -6
Will the horizon league ever expand? Like back to 12 teams? They lost uic a couple years ago. Iupui and IPFW and Oakland and Robert Morris are good additions. Take st. Thomas it’s close to uwgb and Milwaukee not saying you could but that would be good.
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Post by bayballer on May 7, 2024 9:26:55 GMT -6
Are there any schools worth adding at the moment? St Thomas would be a fine addition, but I’m guessing they’re holding out for a better conference that also has football, otherwise I don’t see why they would leave the Summit for the Horizon. The only other schools out there I see as realistic options are Bellarmine, Chicago St, and Southern Indiana. Chicago St seems to be turning around their program, but they just lost their coach and they have absolutely no fan base, so I’m not sure any conference will ever be interested in adding them. Bellarmine and Southern Indiana make sense geographically and also fit the Horizons marketing campaign of “metro” schools, they both had pretty bad seasons last year but Bellarmine in particular has a history of success at the D2 level, and they also have good facilities, so they’d probably be the only addition I’d be interested in.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on May 7, 2024 9:29:56 GMT -6
Yeah to get back to 12 teams I would think the horizon would be thinking to add.
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Post by phearthephoenix on May 7, 2024 9:59:05 GMT -6
Will, I think you and Jon LeCrone are the only two people in the entire world that think IUPUI was a good addition to the Horizon League.
PFW has no fan base but they've been fine on the court. Robert Morris has been bad but they at least have some potential with a new facility and some history.
Hell no to Chicago State. St. Thomas seems destined for the MVC, especially when they get their new basketball arena. Bellarmine had a couple good seasons moving into D1 but have been average to pretty bad their last two. Southern Indiana has a new facility but they play second fiddle in a relatively small town and have been pretty bad in a bad league during their short time in D1.
I am not sure which one of those two I'd take, I'd probably lean towards Bellarmine but honestly there's no need to add a team just to add someone right now. Especially when the available options are sub 300 ranked teams that will just drag the league down even further. We have enough 200+ ranked nonsense in the league (including our own program, though hopefully not for much longer).
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on May 7, 2024 10:08:10 GMT -6
Iupui from an entire athletic standpoint not just men’s basketball. Yes men’s basketball is a big point. But take northern Kentucky it was d2 just became d1 when it was added in the horizon league. Chicago state geography makes sense the horizon league just had a team like that in uic. But wasn’t Chicago state independent and now just joined a conference? I didn’t mean like right now I meant like ever? Uic left a couple years ago. There been moment in all conferences in d1 I wondered if that would ever mean if maybe if it would affect the horizon maybe a team will leave Milwaukee has been a team mentioned to maybe leave?
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Post by uscg2012 on May 7, 2024 10:53:52 GMT -6
Will the horizon league ever expand? Like back to 12 teams? They lost uic a couple years ago. Iupui and IPFW and Oakland and Robert Morris are good additions. Take st. Thomas it’s close to uwgb and Milwaukee not saying you could but that would be good. IUPUI is a good addition?
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Post by bayballer on May 7, 2024 12:24:25 GMT -6
Will, I think you and Jon LeCrone are the only two people in the entire world that think IUPUI was a good addition to the Horizon League. PFW has no fan base but they've been fine on the court. Robert Morris has been bad but they at least have some potential with a new facility and some history. Hell no to Chicago State. St. Thomas seems destined for the MVC, especially when they get their new basketball arena. Bellarmine had a couple good seasons moving into D1 but have been average to pretty bad their last two. Southern Indiana has a new facility but they play second fiddle in a relatively small town and have been pretty bad in a bad league during their short time in D1. I am not sure which one of those two I'd take, I'd probably lean towards Bellarmine but honestly there's no need to add a team just to add someone right now. Especially when the available options are sub 300 ranked teams that will just drag the league down even further. We have enough 200+ ranked nonsense in the league (including our own program, though hopefully not for much longer). I don’t put much stock in Bellarmine’s bad couple seasons, the transition process makes it pretty tough to win considering they’re unable to make the NCAA tournament for their first 4 seasons. Now that that the transition period is over, I’d expect them to have more sustained success. Look at Northern Kentucky, prior to joining the Horizon they were pretty bad in the ASun. Then they won the Horizon League title four of their first five seasons in the conference. Given Bellarmine’s track record, I really don’t think adding them would be like adding another IUPUI or Robert Morris, long term I see them being more of a NKU type of addition.
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Post by gbbrl97 on May 7, 2024 13:44:23 GMT -6
St. Thomas would be an interesting addition, but I think they are holding out for the MVC eventually with an eye to the Big East (pie in the sky goal; the school meets the profile of the other Big East schools) if they can get the program to a level of success like Butler did but UST needs to beef up their facilities first. Travel-wise it would be easier in the HL since all of the schools are located in or near larger cities with decent size airports except mighty Austen Straubel Airport in GB ;-)
Bellarmine would fit in the current HL footprint and would be close to IUPUI, NKU, and WSU.
Hard no on Chicago State. It’s a dumpster fire of an athletics program. I’m surprised they are still D1. The schools enrollment is shrinking and I wouldn’t be surprised if they went belly up in the next decade.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 9, 2024 12:59:11 GMT -6
While I prefer USI for any expansion conversation, they currently do not spend at the HL level. They would be last by almost $800,000 per year. Until that changes I can't imagine them being a fit for the HL.
Bellarmine does spend at the correct level and is a great geographic fit. They are the school that would check the most boxes.
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Post by phearthephoenix on May 10, 2024 12:43:57 GMT -6
The MVC has an opening with Missouri State announcing they'll be moving to Conference USA. Will they poach the HL yet again? Or is it St. Thomas time to move up?
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Post by bayballer on May 10, 2024 13:22:55 GMT -6
St Thomas seems like the most logical choice considering they have football. Since it’s a football school leaving, I’m guessing they’d prefer to replace them with a football school.
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Post by bayballer on May 10, 2024 13:28:13 GMT -6
And if they are looking at HL schools to add, my guess is that Northern Kentucky and Youngstown would be at the top of their list, YSU only because they’re already a member of the football conference.
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Post by gbbrl97 on May 10, 2024 15:36:03 GMT -6
Would the MVC go after UWM? It’s closer to their current footprint and gives them a big media market.
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