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Post by phearthephoenix on Nov 17, 2021 12:46:11 GMT -6
Good post, congrats to Loyola on their incredible rise from Horizon League afterthought to a spot in the A-10.
On a side note, I always get a kick out of the "we need to get out of this dumb league" posts on every other HL message board - especially from the fans of UIC, Detroit Mercy, UWM, ect, teams that have been awful for the past decade contributing to the HL's demise instead of working towards making it a decent mid-major league again.
As for the MVC, it'll be interesting to see if they poach the HL again or if they are a little hesitant since Valpo has been a pretty big flop. I will say it is pretty unfortunate timing for GB's program to be at its lowest depths in about 30 years. Green Bay is an MVC-sized market, comparable to Peoria, Terre Haute, Springfield, MO, Evansville, Des Moines, ect. Now it sounds like they are trying to go away from that a little bit by adding Belmont (Nashville) and potentially adding UT-Arlington and UMKC which are all in big markets. If the MVC only cares about market size then hopefully they just add UT-Arlington and UMKC so the HL can snatch up Murray State, but it sounds like they could be joining the MVC as well.
UWGB is one of the few schools in the country that is seeing consistent enrollment growth and new degree programs added. As a basketball program, GB certainly has more to offer than UT-Arlington or UMKC in terms of basketball pedigree and fan support. But as the poster above mentions, we need to first of all start winning games again, we need to schedule smarter, and we need to invest in the program better.
It reminds me of what the new AD said in his introductory press conference. "The ability to rise and elevate to a level that most folks might not even think is possible, that's why I'm here. Why not us, why not Green Bay?" That is the mindset that we need around our program to get back to being a consistent title contender. If that makes us more attractive to better leagues along the way then even better.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Nov 17, 2021 15:44:25 GMT -6
Why not UWGB? The school’s first Chancellor, Ed Weidner had a vision of using sports to grow the university and gain national attention. Heck, even Vince Lombardi was willing to pitch in, interviewing candidates for the first head basketball coach. Weidner had seen firsthand what the impact of sports could do for a school. He started at the University of Minnesota, with stops along the way at Michigan State, Kentucky, and Hawaii. Back in the late 1960s, he put together a marching band at UWGB with the hopes of being featured nationally during Packer games. (The networks did that sort of thing in leu of talking heads and highlights)
The first basketball coach, Dave Buss, was old school opting for a four-corner offense at times. He won and made some noise. The problem was on the marketing end. Buss needed help. The Press-Gazette coverage was awful. The first sell-out in the early days, a rarity, was an NAIA Tournament victory over UW-Eau Claire, a team that had been a top NAIA national power for years.
The best chance GB had of moving up the college sports pecking order clearly came with Dick Bennett. Sell-out crowds started to turn out after a few years, there were NCAA and NIT appearances and with-it national exposure. When the Madison job opened, and Herb Kohl offered to build a new arena on the UW campus it was all over. Bennett simply was a generational, irreplaceable figure.
The core of the local fanbase couldn’t embrace anything less than the Bennett magic. Tod Kowalczyk brought the program back from the depth it had fallen after Coach Bennett’s departure. Kowalczyk didn’t have much behind him for support and was a work in progress as a coach and not a natural marketer. He was good, one on one but not to a wider audience that would bring fans back to the stands.
Brian Wardle was another “work in progress” coach with a maturity problem. His recruiting brought in some of the best talent in the history of the program. Linc Darner inherited much of that talent and there was magic at the end of his first season. After that it was clear Darner was not a fit for what could work at GB.
Will Ryan may have the genes to make it work on the court. To make it work as a marketing tool for the school and to move to another level the program needs to be hitting on all cylinders. That means a promotional and marketing team that can generate excitement, donations, and expanded resources.
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Post by barnzoboy on Nov 18, 2021 12:50:54 GMT -6
Good comments in the last few posts. I've wondered about these things as well - we've seen plenty of programs leave the fold for greener pastures. You can go way back to SW Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Butler, and yeah, Loyola was kind of a head-scratcher, but wow they really got it done. As a public university, do we have the same budgetary carte-blanche that a private school does? It sucks being humiliated by big schools, but there's bills to pay. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with our facilities - Resch and Kress both decent, heck our biggest success years took place in the Brown County Arena. The Resch has luxury boxes, but I don't know that I've ever seen a soul in there at a GB game. I think for whatever reason our program has failed to engage students for one. I assume games at the Kress are designed with students in mind, but I'm not sure if the student presence at the Kress is appreciably greater than the Resch? I don't know what the current deal is, but honestly they should give tickets to students for free, and run a couple buses to the Resch if need be. I don't think in this day and age transportation is what is keeping students from going to the Resch. I hope some additional marketing can be successful. Time to start thinking outside the box, let's try a DJ type guy at a game or two, maybe time to retire the sling-shot the chicken into a shopping cart promo thing. Following the Packers doesn't mean people don't have the capacity to also follow a college basketball team, there's no reason attendance couldn't be 4k per game. Yes, media coverage has really sucked too. But again, what is the school doing to foster more coverage? Are we spoon-feeding them print ready press-releases, photos, or fun videos that provide some easy content to the media outlets? We've got to do more to actively engage the community and get in the spotlight and stay there. Right now it feels like we've been stuck for a long time.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Nov 18, 2021 16:59:08 GMT -6
Resch and Kress are both solid. The Dick Bennett gym needs some help and athletes don't have their own weight room.
My feeling is that GB needs to have something new and exciting. Other programs like UWM for example are building new buildings and catching up or passing GB.
If you stand still you get passed by.
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Post by gbgoose on Jan 26, 2022 11:24:06 GMT -6
With UIC leaving for the Missouri Valley, are there any schools that could be a fit for future Horizon League expansion? St. Thomas? The Dakota schools?
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Post by gbbrl97 on Jan 26, 2022 11:36:48 GMT -6
I would hope they would target St. Thomas. It would help get a large metro area back into the HL footprint since Chicago is now gone between UIC, Loyola, and Valpo (they are metro Chicago IMO) leaving the last several years.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Jan 26, 2022 12:43:44 GMT -6
Win / win for all involved. UIC gets to move up to a better league and the Horizon League gets rid of what has been a boat anchor of a program for nearly 20 years.
I hope the HL stands pat at 11 for awhile but I wouldn't be surprised if they show some interest in Bellarmine to try and get back to 12 right away (plus they have baseball, which is important since the league is losing a baseball team).
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Post by phoenixphan87 on Jan 30, 2022 16:08:20 GMT -6
Short list of options for Horizon
Bellarmine Grand Valley State Southern Indiana
All schools that look ready to make the move up in conferences or make a big splash moving up to D1. No need to make a panic move but these schools have the markets/resources.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Jan 30, 2022 17:59:01 GMT -6
Those schools have been talked rumored for the horizon league for years so makes sense.
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Post by Panther on Feb 10, 2022 15:02:00 GMT -6
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Post by phearthephoenix on Feb 10, 2022 16:07:10 GMT -6
I've done almost a complete 180 on this topic. On the surface it seems incredibly petty for the HL to not allow UIC to participate in the postseason.
But when you dig into it a little bit more, UIC knew the bylaws were in place and that they were going to be in violation of the bylaw. In the end UIC and their administration are the ones that messed up by not waiting until April or May to announce their move. The HL doesn't need to amend their bylaws (which UIC helped create) just because the Flames were too eager to announce their move to a new league. Otherwise what is the point of having any rules at all?
So for me it's sorry UIC, but go pound sand.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 10, 2022 16:26:59 GMT -6
Wait, UIC is leaving the league?! I thought they left 15 years ago, they certainly haven't been noticeable in a good way in basketball in that time.
Jamie Ahale doing an interview about being deprived of a chance to go to the NCAA tournament is hilarious. UIC wasn't going to the NCAA tournament this year and possibly any year soon. I look forward to them getting their butt kicked in the MVC for the next few years.
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Post by Panther on Feb 10, 2022 16:36:17 GMT -6
Wait, UIC is leaving the league?! I thought they left 15 years ago, they certainly haven't been noticeable in a good way in basketball in that time. Jamie Ahale doing an interview about being deprived of a chance to go to the NCAA tournament is hilarious. UIC wasn't going to the NCAA tournament this year and possibly any year soon. I look forward to them getting their butt kicked in the MVC for the next few years. Lol...
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 11, 2022 9:01:28 GMT -6
I am surprised that the UIC athletic director had time to get UIC into the MVC. I hear him talk and I think he must have a day job at the shady corner used car lot that probably keeps him really busy.
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Post by Panther on Feb 15, 2022 13:56:17 GMT -6
Looks like UIC won the fight... Play Ball Folks...
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