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Post by shooting the J on Jan 23, 2014 6:31:51 GMT -6
I believe it to be one of the major reasons he left for Toledo. That and athletic department support all around. I thought Tod left so Green Bay could hire a coach that would schedule real teams and deliver a championship? In all seriousness, Tod left for 1 reason and 1 reason only, it was for the payday. Tod's legacy in Green Bay will always be 2 things: The negative is he'll be the only GB D1 coach never to go to the big dance, and the positive will be he brought Brian Wardle to Green Bay. Tod could coach but he had no vision as a recruiter, and personality hurt him from closing deals. He didn't understand the importance of recruiting defense. He did well with what he had, but as we can see now, Green Bay can attract higher upside talent.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Jan 23, 2014 6:45:29 GMT -6
I like Tod a lot and respect the effort he put in at GB. He was on a learning curve and did it with the shadow of hard feelings in many quarters because of the end of the Bennett Era. Heideman was part of that legacy and it didn't work out. (Did those hard feelings kill any chances of recruiting the Koch brothers?)
If I could put my finger on one issue it might be Tod's failure to recruit enough true point guards. He saw a 2guards and thought they could do the job. One on one he seemed to get along well with some influential supporters. He was not a natural PR type of coach. To his credit he has grown a great deal over the years. Race, Wardle and Jon Harris were outstanding hires as assistant coaches.
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Post by shooting the J on Jan 23, 2014 8:51:28 GMT -6
Great to get another double digit victory. An adventure getting there. Oakland played physical, but GB did an awesome job on Bader. Lowe really struggled to defend Petros, who is a really solid player.
The T Paul Scelzic gave Wardle might have been the least provoked technical I've ever witnessed. This officiating crew was really overmatched. That T was a turning point and got Oakland back in the game. However, this staff and team doesn't lose composure and overcame it.
Great game by Love. He is incredibly focused. He's a really strong combination of defender, ball handler, 3 point shooter, and finisher on the break. That's rate to get all of that in 1 player. Great vision by this staff in recognizing what this player could develop into. To think that his only other D1 offer was from Seattle is almost funny now.
Tough night for Vince Garret. He continues to struggle with turnovers and surprisingly struggles mightily finishing at the rim. I wish we'd have gotten him a year earlier, because there's just too little time to fix all his fundamental flaws. The positive is he continues to kill it from 3 point range.
On to Detroit, let's make it 12 in a row.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2014 9:04:32 GMT -6
I hate to admit that I didn't see the game yet so I can't call out any fair weather fans. I had to attend a work dinner with my wife and her boss. I do plan to watch the game on HLN archive later today.
As for people not going I always believed that winning would cure everything related to attendance. Right now it looks like that is no longer the case in GB. It used to be true in the Coach K era that fans would come out for the big games (Butler, uwm, bracket buster to name a few). Sunday will be a good test. If there are not 4000+ people there than I will be really concerned. At a minimum a family friendly time and deal is happening with really good hoops in the background.
As for this game I don't think weeknight time slots are good for the league. Maybe they should aim for Friday night and Sunday afternoon game times, or at least get back to Thursday/Saturday. I don't think fans recognize that Oakland is in the league and surely the ones that do aren't going to get juiced up like they would if Butler was coming to town.
I live in Milwaukee and I have bought 5 packs in the past and an 8 pack this year. I really just hand picked the best games and don't buy the dogs. So what makes me go is the quality of the opponents. Seeing them whip D2 and NAIA teams doesn't excite me.
I will say this, the people in the athletic department do a great job of putting out content online and via twitter. For me that is amazing, I feel closer to the action this year than ever before. Yet how many people know this or in the GB area use these mediums for info? On twitter Andrew Gavin has 695 followers, Hartwig has 614 followers, GBMBB has 1628 followers, from the league office Bill Potter has 1255 followers and the GB alumni association has 433 followers (and no recent hoops retweets). How many are unique followers? I guess my thought is we have amazing people doing amazing work, yet is it reaching the broad audience? How do you drive that info to people? When I look at the coaches show each week I usually see an older audience, I doubt they are getting their info on twitter, youtube, facebook or the website. I also think that the team usually does a good job of getting Wardle and the players on the local tv and radio. So how do you pull all of that together and get people interested again? I wish I knew or had more time to think about it.
As for Coach K I would say his legacy right now is as a turn around specialist. He brought GB back to respectable and he certainly took a dead Toledo team and gave them life. I wouldn't say he left for the money because he only makes about 100k more. I think he left because he felt lifting up Toledo would put him in a better position to get the real big pay day. I would have to assume Toledo will be coming with a bigger check after this year if not someone else will be. He does have a lot to sell to a program that might be down in the dumps. Also, I agree that he isn't the jerk people portray him to be. In my one on one conversations he seemed more like a shy guy placed in a role that requires interaction with strangers. He seemed to know the right thing to say or do he just didn't seem natural saying or doing it.
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Post by shooting the J on Jan 23, 2014 9:36:10 GMT -6
As for Coach K I would say his legacy right now is as a turn around specialist. He brought GB back to respectable and he certainly took a dead Toledo team and gave them life. I wouldn't say he left for the money because he only makes about 100k more. I think he left because he felt lifting up Toledo would put him in a better position to get the real big pay day. I would have to assume Toledo will be coming with a bigger check after this year if not someone else will be. He does have a lot to sell to a program that might be down in the dumps. Also, I agree that he isn't the jerk people portray him to be. In my one on one conversations he seemed more like a shy guy placed in a role that requires interaction with strangers. He seemed to know the right thing to say or do he just didn't seem natural saying or doing it. Kowalczyk makes $400 K with Toledo and was under $200 K at Green Bay. I've heard quiet rumblings that people are ready to pay Brian. We'll see how it plays out. The fact that Chancelor Harden is on his way out is great news for the athletic department. He never understand how athletics drives the growth of a university. He small-minded ness drove Bothof out. There are plenty of smart boosters who will carve a better direction. The booster support is strong in reletive terms compared to the schools size and youth.
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Post by stillaphoenixphan on Jan 23, 2014 10:09:37 GMT -6
Seeing this has turned into the Coach K vs Coach W format I'll give IMHO of him. If you were associated with the Bennet era he didn't want to talk or see you. I don't know if he felt over shadowed by Dick or just didn't want any reminders.
Also for those that think he's so squeky clean he had baggage from before he got to GB.
Tod Kowalczyk (born June 19, 1966) is an American college basketball coach and current head men's basketball coach at the University of Toledo. He was the head coach at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay from 2002–10, before accepting the head coaching position at Toledo on March 30, 2010.[1] In 1999, Kowalczyk was sued in court by two former players he coached as an assistant at Rutgers. In the suit, the players alleged that Kowalczyk and head coach Kevin Bannon forced them to remove all of their clothing as part of a free throw drill. If they missed a shot, Kowalczyk and Bannon forced them to remove clothing. They said that they expected to stop at their undergarments, but Kowalczyk and Bannon preferred that they go nude.
Now just think if Coach BW had been accused of this, some of you would have lynched him before the trial! I never menthioned anything negative about Coach K until now but have always tried to be positive about all of our Coaches. But there just seems to be to many with vendettas and I just want to show that if you dig deep enough you can find something negative about anybody.
My apoligies to Coach K for this as it was only meant as a example of how things can get out of hand. Also to show how petty comparing history to current times can be.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2014 10:18:17 GMT -6
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Post by Fanforever on Jan 23, 2014 11:28:31 GMT -6
I agree that Brian and his staff need to be compensated for the hard they have and will put into the program. The issue is, does the university have enough money to do that. If not the fans and alumni have to dig into their pockets and donate more which they already should have been doing. My wife and I give $400 per year along with purchasing 5 season tickets. We are by no means rich and have three kids but want to promote the program and University. Just think if every alumni and fan gave $100 per year what that would mean for the budget of the athletics program.
The Phoenix are fun to watch and a nice thing for a family to go to together so I am not sure why the attendance has been down. Me and my family have missed a couple of games this year due to our kids sports activities but I have traded in tickets for co-workers to use in hopes of sparking their interest in going to more games. Maybe the ticket office could send out a reminder to season ticket holders to do that with unused tickets as it might bring the attendance up.
I know I am babbling but want the program to succeed and not be a 3-4 year stop on a coaches resume.
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Post by gbbrl97 on Jan 23, 2014 12:44:43 GMT -6
Honestly, I expected more from Chancellor Harden regarding athletics and how it can drive university growth. He came from Keenesaw State (from the Atlantic Sun Conference), which is another D1 program, in which I thought he would at least get it. I guess we were all wrong. Hopefully we the next Chancellor can bridge that gape between athletics, university growth, and community relations. Hopefully the new AD, since her background is in fundraising, can help with those dynamics.......
As far as TK, I didn't realize he was as shy as it was being posted. He did come off as arrogant and was trying to dismiss the Bennett era a little too quickly and harshly. He did turn the program around, but during his tenure, his recruiting was disjointed with the offensive system he wanted to run (as he lacked the depth/talent at PG to run it), and the defense/rebounding was almost non-existent. They were like the classic Bennett teams that relied on the 3-pt shot, but without the stifing team defense. It is hard to follow that legacy, but any coach who fills that HC seat needs to embrace that legacy, since that is the golden era of GB basketball. It looks like BW has done that.
GB needs to stay healthy and keep the momentum going. Since Al McKinnie's health is still in doubt, we are a key player injury away from falling back into the pack.
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Post by stillaphoenixphan on Jan 23, 2014 13:32:33 GMT -6
I think GBPhoenix, buzz95 and gbbr197 all have good points. It's time for Coach Wardle and his coaching staff to get paid for what they are worth. We have a chance to be a high Mid-Major if we continue on this track. But to do that the Coaches and Team needs support from the School and Community or we'll be just 1-2 seasons wonders every 10-15 years. We have a chance for something more than just developing coaches for other programs!
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Jan 23, 2014 15:45:50 GMT -6
The post dealing with Kowalczyk and Rutgers is way out of bounds. An incomplete, short hand of the situation paints a brush that he did not deserve to be painted with.
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Post by wiscosports on Jan 23, 2014 16:01:24 GMT -6
UWGB will never pay Wardle anywhere near 400K a year. Why Kowalcyk left (and let's not say 100K pay increase isn't a lot) that window you can collect on that can close in a hurry anyone would leave. And game attendance is down because they have failed to adapt with the change of times. They don't market their product effectively at all and therefore the game experience for people who don't know names in UWGB basketball don't have much fun at a game.
Men's Basketball Ticket Revenue is the main source of income for all of GB's sports and until they figure out how to draw better they can't afford to pay an AD a competitive wage or a Head Coach. Getting people to donate money is not an effective way to run a business; instead they should be figuring out game promotions and exciting new things to draw youthful fans and sponsors. And no free tickets on televised games is not the answer. Then you jeopordize your season ticket base.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2014 18:12:15 GMT -6
UWGB will never pay Wardle anywhere near 400K a year. Why Kowalcyk left (and let's not say 100K pay increase isn't a lot) that window you can collect on that can close in a hurry anyone would leave. And game attendance is down because they have failed to adapt with the change of times. They don't market their product effectively at all and therefore the game experience for people who don't know names in UWGB basketball don't have much fun at a game. Men's Basketball Ticket Revenue is the main source of income for all of GB's sports and until they figure out how to draw better they can't afford to pay an AD a competitive wage or a Head Coach. Getting people to donate money is not an effective way to run a business; instead they should be figuring out game promotions and exciting new things to draw youthful fans and sponsors. And no free tickets on televised games is not the answer. Then you jeopordize your season ticket base. I would guess that segregated fees from the students, sponsorships, horizon league tournament money/tv share and maybe donations are a bigger source of revenue than men's hoops tickets. Since 2002 the best seasons at the Resch had about 64,000 total fans. Most seasons that number has been in the mid 40's. Lets assume the average ticket is $20, which it isn't but if it were the best year would have a total of $1,280,000 of ticket sales and the average season would be $900,000 of sales. If every person is spending another $15 to $25 at the game the total would be $960,000 to $1,600,000 in a good year and $675,000 to $1,125,000 in an average year. So a good year would have total hoops revenue from the fans of $2,240,000 to $2,880,000 and an average year would be $1,560,000 to $2,500,000 of total hoops revenue from the fans. From there what expenses does PMI have and how much of that does GB Athletics actually see? My guess is not enough since the hoops budget is about 1.5 million and the total athletic department is 7.5 or 8 million dollars. Even if every game sold out and every person was worth $40 a game that would be $5,940,000 of total revenue. What is GB's share of that? Men's hoops probably isn't going to be a cash cow for the athletic department at the gate (unless they are taking home the lions share of that number which I would doubt). On it's own I don't think it is enough to raise the total budget of the deparment to a competitive spot in the HL. I do think that paying a staff to stay in place could still be a good investment if winning did lead to more fans which leads to more sponsorships and donations which leads to more winning which leads to more of the ncaa tournament share or more tv money etc. So I guess I agree that men's hoops can still feed the whole family but I think it comes from the continuity of winning and all that could come with it. If and when that time comes they need to take the risk to take to build the next VCU, Wichita State, Creighton, Butler or Gonzaga. Those programs all dug in deep or kept digging in deeper to build their brand and keep their pieces in place. I would really be a proud alumni if they could build this thing in the same way. Making the investment with a little bit of good timing could really change the profile of the department. I would guess schools like Detroit or Loyola wish they had made the same moves and investments that Marquette did.
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Post by wiscosports on Jan 23, 2014 19:23:32 GMT -6
I'm guessing the lease agreement is that the University gets all of ticket revenue but only a percentage of concessions and parking. PMI is all covered in their rent dues which is extremely favorable for GB which is why they built the Kress smaller so men's basketball will never be there. The average ticket excluding comp tickets (which gb has a lot out) is probably closer to $14 if you figure they will average 2,000 paid tickets each home game which is 18 total that brings you to $504,000 in ticket revenue. In contrast the Resch Center has a capacity of 9,000 if they even upped the attendance to half full (4,500) at $14 tickets = $1,134,000 and full would be 2.2 million. I can assure you this is what holding them back from compensation towards coaches but even in their AD search everyone knew they wouldn't over pay.
This is why coaches are pushing so hard to come out to games and support the team, that is the number one source of revenue for any sports team. I completely agree that an investment in athletics is something that the school needs to do, but the money has to come from somewhere.
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Post by Fanforever on Feb 3, 2014 8:27:06 GMT -6
Coach Wardle got the T for telling the ref to call the game fair. The ref T'd him up and said that Coach Wardle was insinuating that he was cheating. That is a ref being way to sensitive.
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