|
Post by phoenixphan87 on Apr 25, 2017 14:49:02 GMT -6
The thought of Milwaukee going to the MVC really would be a blow to GB. Having a natural instate rival is a great thing for exposure and at the ticket gate. If the Valley takes Valpo and Murray State(both good choices) they are stuck with 11 teams. I think Belmont is missing a big opportunity by not showing any interest.
Losing both Milwaukee and Valpo would probably force the Horizon to look at the Denver, Omaha and UMKC's of the world and hope for growth from them. Settling for IUPUI and IPFW doesn't do it for me.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 30, 2017 8:13:59 GMT -6
If I were the MVC officials I would rank their four perspective members in this order:
1. Murray State 2. Valpo 3. Omaha 4. Milwaukee
Murray State has the best tradition, biggest fan base and the right type of facility. Most importantly they are the only show in town and that is what drives the ship. Omaha and Milwaukee are currently and likely to always be the 3rd most important D1 hoops team in their area while competing against professional or semi professional sports for attention as well. Murray State doesn't need the MVC to rise to the MVL level of hoops importance, they are already there.
Valpo is similiar to Murray State just not as good. Their tradition and success isn't as rich, their fan base isn't as big, their arena isn't as nice and not that matters for this discussion their other non men's hoops teams aren't that strong. However, they are on better footing than Omaha or Milwaukee and will help move the MVC needle more.
Omaha has been a good market for the MVC in the past but that might be a double edge sword as people may look down their nose as UNO and think look how far the MVC has fallen. Anyway, they are a younger D1 program but have done a fair amount in a short period and do own a recent win over a Big 10 team. They built an arena with private money and debt to be covered by the university. I realize the numbers don't work right now on that. However, they are showing they get things done on the court and off it. They sold the naming rights for 400k per year to a local auto group for example.
Milwaukee has had recent men's hoops academic issues, they have a $10,000,000 athletic department debt, they have a fan base vs. athletic director battle going on in public, they have a small fan base to begin with and in the last 10 years they have regular season HL finishes of 4,5,4,1,4,9,5,5,5,&10. Plus the arena they play in is very nice but I have two issues with it. One, much of the upgrades are because of the Admirals playing there and not Milwaukee. Also, they used 3.4 million of university money to get the naming rights/reinvest in the arena. Compare that Omaha with 400k/per of outside of money coming in. Plus they aren't a primary tenant in their building as they played something like 3 or 4 games on campus in their high school level gym this past year. I don't see Milwaukee winning on the court and I don't see them winning on the business side off the court. Add in that like Omaha they are a third banana in their home town and if I were the MVC I would pass. So now that I have said that Milwaukee will probably get the 12th spot and leave GB to the carcass known as the HL.
I also think it is important to note that UNO is spending money on their building. Milwaukee has a debt from operating expenses. To me that is a big difference. In simple terms one program is kicking in for a mortgage and will own an asset while the other is living on credit cards.
Also, I read about the fertile Milwaukee recruiting area. The state of Wisconsin in general turns out between 10 and 20 total D1 hoops players per year. Milwaukee will only have 2 scholarship players from WI on their roster this year. Only one of which is from the Milwaukee suburbs. Many of the best Milwaukee based players go to JUCO's or leave and go to Prep Schools and end up not playing in the Midwest. This hurts GB as well as Milwaukee.
|
|
|
Post by thetulsawarrior on Apr 30, 2017 9:51:24 GMT -6
The Horizon League should expand no matter what. It will help with scheduling. I'd consider D1 schools within the current footprint. You may turn up your nose at the idea but in the long run it will make for a more stable league and a better financial situation of all the schools. As to UWM -- they have a massive financial hole to dig out of and a move to the MVC would create more expenses without the subsequent financial reward. In the current state climate I don't think lawmakers would be happy with that.
|
|
|
Post by gbbrl97 on May 2, 2017 6:26:25 GMT -6
csnbbs.com/thread-816290-post-14290053.html The link above has some chatter about Murray State and Valpo joining the MVC; This would bring the MVC to 11 members, but they would play 20 conference games and keep their round robin schedule for basketball.
|
|
|
Post by phoenixphan87 on May 2, 2017 10:16:20 GMT -6
from a pretty reliable source in mid major/valley basketball... What is the horizon's next move if this is true?
|
|
|
Post by uscg2012 on May 2, 2017 10:23:16 GMT -6
Let Valpo leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
|
|
|
Post by phoenixphan87 on May 2, 2017 10:35:44 GMT -6
First call would be to Murray State(if Valpo is only addition) and see if there is interest there. Murray State has baseball which the Horizon will be scrambling for and is close enough to the footprint.
|
|
|
Post by yayphoenixyay on May 2, 2017 11:21:12 GMT -6
First call would be to Murray State(if Valpo is only addition) and see if there is interest there. Murray State has baseball which the Horizon will be scrambling for and is close enough to the footprint. I'd really like to see GB add baseball or lacrosse
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 6, 2017 14:14:50 GMT -6
As we prepare for the likely departure of Valpo to the MVC I think it becomes time to figure out who is stepping in to replace them. In looking at the profile of the remaining nine members I see eight public schools, nine schools in metro areas, a need for a baseball team and with the exception of YSU no football programs. So I started to look around at D1 teams that don’t play top level football or OVC football. I excluded OVC football because I have a hard time believing a team can leave the OVC and still keep their football there. They would either need to move up to the MVFC or down to the Pioneer League. So who is out there that fits the list, has been rumored or if they haven’t been rumored isn’t too far away. My list in no order was Western Illinois, UMKC, Omaha, New Mexico St, Denver, SIUE, Morehead State, Chicago State, Lipscomb, Oral Roberts, Robert Morris, Little Rock, UT Arlington, IUPUI and IPFW. UMKC, Denver, IUPUI and Robert Morris don’t have baseball. Incidentally Robert Morris has football, hockey and LaCrosse making them a bad fit on many levels. New Mexico State, Arlington and Little Rock have baseball. Little Rock doesn’t have much else for men’s sports like soccer and New Mexico State plays Sunbelt football as a member of the WAC. I just can’t see these schools wanting to compete with upper Midwestern schools in sports even though they fit the description. On the private school side of things I do see Lipscomb and Oral Roberts as fits for sports. However, I can’t see Oral Roberts leaving the Summit. I do however see Lipscomb being a fit for sports, market, facilities and they are a geographic outlier in their current conference. In smaller markets I see Western Illinois being a fit for sports. I see Morehead State being a partial fit as they offer most of the sports the HL does but then have odd choices like rifle and beach volleyball but do not have soccer. In larger metro markets that could be a travel partner with UIC I see public schools like Omaha, SIUE, Chicago State and IPFW offering all of the sports that the HL needs. So while I see this as the most likely group to choose from each has a few questions. Omaha has hockey and is far away as a member. Chicago State and IPFW have fiscal issues. SIUE is a good fit in most regards but are they really going to move the needle in any way as they haven’t been that competitive. So while I would like to pick with my heart in trying to be logical I think the newest member will be from the Lipscomb, Omaha, SIUE or Fort Wayne. I personally have warmed up to Fort Wayne over the past few years and I think a switch to a conference that makes more geographic sense for them will improve fan interest. Fort Wayne has baseball, is 2.5 hours from UIC for travel and they could get their fans to Motor City Madness easily. If the league just replaces Valpo I see it being Fort Wayne.
|
|
|
Post by thetulsawarrior on May 6, 2017 15:50:53 GMT -6
I'd add in this order -- IPFW, IUPUI and Chicago State. This is an economic decision based on travel costs and geographic decision fitting into the leagues current footprint. These programs all have the potential to grow and are in areas that are natural recruiting areas for GB. In the the Horizon should add three school -- you can pick them but three schools are needed to ease scheduling issues.
|
|
|
Post by PantherU on May 7, 2017 13:46:15 GMT -6
First call would be to Murray State(if Valpo is only addition) and see if there is interest there. Murray State has baseball which the Horizon will be scrambling for and is close enough to the footprint. 100% this. If the lower probability move happens (Valpo, Murray State and Milwaukee to the MVC), this would leave the HL with five baseball teams. Any expansion would absolutely need at minimum one baseball team. LeCrone wants to go to 12. I tend to agree. He can kill off any need for baseball to drive future expansion by going to 12. There is another solution though. If the Horizon League loses both schools or even just Valpo, then I would seriously consider approaching the Summit League about merging the two conferences for baseball. "The League" would give up a bid, but would be able to keep baseball from driving expansion ever. Baseball has kept us from adding Robert Morris until now, which is an unfortunate problem. Only an hour away from YSU, the Colonials are a legit program and one of the most stable mid-majors in the country. I think there's a way to save this, but it's highly unlikely and would need to be fast. Once we know the MVC's intention, the Horizon League can capitalize on it if the MVC decides to only add one school. I believe that school will be Valpo, even if they plan on adding Murray State and another school in the future. The HL could call up Murray State and ask them for a conditional approval to join up privately and go pitch Belmont on joining in full sports. The Bruins have turned down both the HL and MVC in the past, but the OVC could become bottom 4 if they lose the Racers and Belmont, while happy being the big fish in a small pond, would be left with nothing but 15 seeds at best forever. The travel to the Horizon League is easier, since almost every school has a local airport and most have local international airports that would give less expensive travel costs in comparison to the MVC. Pitch Belmont on joining with Murray State on the condition we find a suitable 12th school. Then show up in Valparaiso, look Mark LaBarbera in the face and say "Look; we've got the two best schools outside the Horizon League for Midwest expansion. The basketball here is now better than the MVC. If you stay, the Horizon League officially usurps the MVC as the premier mid-major conference. After next year, we can opt out and move the conference tournament to Indianapolis. All you have to do is stay." LaBarbera is smart. He will know the MVC is a shell of its former self and know that the Horizon League with Murray State and Belmont is better. I think he'd tell the MVC "thanks but no thanks." This has about a 0.05% chance of happening, but LeCrone is a wheeler and dealer. He got Valpo in the first place, he got Oakland and he joined Chancellor Lovell and me in petitioning the other chancellors and presidents on adding NKU. He knows what he's doing, and this would be the crowning achievement of his career. He's constantly looking for the next big thing. This is it. This is his Mona Lisa. Get it done, or watch us slip to the twenties in the RPI. Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards
|
|
|
Post by PantherU on May 7, 2017 13:50:58 GMT -6
I'd add in this order -- IPFW, IUPUI and Chicago State. This is an economic decision based on travel costs and geographic decision fitting into the leagues current footprint. These programs all have the potential to grow and are in areas that are natural recruiting areas for GB. In the the Horizon should add three school -- you can pick them but three schools are needed to ease scheduling issues. Tulsa, what are you thinking? This is terrible. Chicago State may not even be a school in a year. Fort Wayne is on shaky footing with the IU-PU split. IUPUI will at least be there, but they're still not a great add in any way, shape or form. I'm more interested in their current arena for the conference tournament than I am in them as a member. If we're adding three in the event of a Valpo departure, not every one needs to play baseball. Robert Morris, only an hour from YSU in Pittsburgh, should be the tenth school. Then 11 and maybe 12 can be baseball schools. Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 7, 2017 14:18:47 GMT -6
I'd add in this order -- IPFW, IUPUI and Chicago State. This is an economic decision based on travel costs and geographic decision fitting into the leagues current footprint. These programs all have the potential to grow and are in areas that are natural recruiting areas for GB. In the the Horizon should add three school -- you can pick them but three schools are needed to ease scheduling issues. Tulsa, what are you thinking? This is terrible. Chicago State may not even be a school in a year. Fort Wayne is on shaky footing with the IU-PU split. IUPUI will at least be there, but they're still not a great add in any way, shape or form. I'm more interested in their current arena for the conference tournament than I am in them as a member. If we're adding three in the event of a Valpo departure, not every one needs to play baseball. Robert Morris, only an hour from YSU in Pittsburgh, should be the tenth school. Then 11 and maybe 12 can be baseball schools. Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards I would not add Chicago State no matter what. They are a shaky university and have few students and fewer fans. It is a commuter school in a questionable neighborhood. They are going to compete is sports and will be an anchor. SIUE is a better add from Illinois and I know LeCrone has been on campus there within the last year and a half. I think Fort Wayne is a lock. As soon as Valpo announces they are gone, Fort Wayne will announce they are in. They are 3 hours driving from every school in the HL except the WI schools. This alone improves their finances. On the men's hoops side they have won 20 games in 3 of the last 5 years. They don't draw great at the gate but a switch to regional opponents might help. Plus it should help recruiting. Add in that they have baseball and they are the new 10th member...book it. That may not be exciting but I think they are a program that can grow with the HL. I know it is competitive with NBDL and minor league hockey but they need to play their men's games in the memorial arena 1.5 miles from their campus and not their on campus gym (save D2 non conference games). That would be my only condition of them joining. I love the idea that Panther U put out there, and I know the LeCrone is working hard. I have talked to him at length in the past, he is not the putz that HL fans like to think. The problem for him is that Belmont is not being progressive in their thinking. The other problem is that the league makes money going to Detroit and they do all the work and take all the risk to put on a very good tournament. Going to Indy will rely on a very small office in the HL HQ to put on a tournament with their own money. This isn't happening in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by thetulsawarrior on May 7, 2017 15:59:09 GMT -6
The bottom line for me is adding three teams for scheduling purposes and a prefer a logical footprint for travel issues.
|
|
|
Post by Heartbroken Phoenix Fan on May 7, 2017 18:44:50 GMT -6
I'd gladly trade valpo for Murray st Belmont and Robert Morris. I'd even take Fort Wayne.
What does it take to get rid of a team? Everyone one of our adds has been a hit since the 2000s except for Youngstown. Get rid of that terrible school. I really like where nku is going as a program. That looks like a big hit. I would be fine going to 12 teams and having a tourney setup like the big ten where bottom four play first day etc
|
|