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Post by uscg2012 on Apr 5, 2017 8:56:53 GMT -6
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Post by yayphoenixyay on Apr 5, 2017 9:07:10 GMT -6
Adding Omaha would only make sense if the HL added another team closer to them. What is the point of adding a travel outlier (or two, Denver isn't really that close to Omaha, either)? I get the whole "wanting to expand the market" thing, but adding a team that plays third-fiddle in the state, way west of all the other schools really makes no sense to me, anyway.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Apr 5, 2017 9:14:29 GMT -6
I think Evansville and another school in Indiana would make more sense.
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Post by uscg2012 on Apr 5, 2017 9:23:44 GMT -6
Hey I would take Omaha, they are an up and coming program plus it's in the Midwest.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 5, 2017 13:10:25 GMT -6
I have long been in favor of trying to poach bottom end of higher league teams. Evansville and Duquesne come to mind. I have also been in favor of going after top end of lower leagues like Belmont and Murray State.
However, I have to admit that I have been closed off to additions that are outside of the league's current geographic footprint. With that said that is the way that the big guys do it. What is setting this next wave of expansion off is Wichita St moving to a league that goes from Texas over to Florida and up to Connecticut. Perhaps the real way to move the needle for the HL is to build a league of up and coming or already established programs in areas that aren't in the footprint.
For example would the league have better numbers with some combination of New Mexico State, Grand Canyon, Denver, Omaha, UMKC, Oral Roberts and Little Rock than it does now? Would that be more attractive for a better TV agreement? Would that get home hoops attendance up? I don't know but I can't fault that this is big picture thinking and may actually move the needle on the HL...or may end being a bad version of C-USA.
One thing that I can't figure out for sure. If the MVC needs a team is it better for GB to try to get in there or will the HL nail this with the right moves and get up the mid major rankings? I do like the direction of every program except YSU in the HL.
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Post by phoenixphan87 on Apr 5, 2017 13:47:49 GMT -6
The article hint that the league wants to expand to create more home games for its members. That would mean a 20 game conference season with at least 11 teams. Evansville seems to be a better fit for the Horizon than the MVC, but that is a hard sell to perceivably step down. Omaha and NDSU/SDSU would be welcome additions IMO. The Dakota programs have nice facilities and have stepped up their spending. With North Dakota going to the Summit, I do not know if they would leave. They have NDSU, ND, SD and SDSU all in the same league with a popular conference tournament nearby. The summit has been at the horizon leagues level the past few years.
At the very least the Horizon should find a replacement to get back to 10 teams if someone(Valpo)leaves for the Valley. Knowing the Horizon executives if they only take one team, it would probably be one of the IU schools and not Omaha for logistical reasons. I think Omaha has the bigger upside.
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Post by uscg2012 on Apr 5, 2017 19:44:04 GMT -6
From what I have been reading it is sounding like Valpo would most likely be replacing WSU in the MVC and then the horizon league will be looking for teams in high profile cities. Two teams mentioned are Denver and UNO.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 6, 2017 7:35:42 GMT -6
I don't get the Valpo to the Valley talk. Their facilities are junk. Their other sports aren't that good. They have no media market. They have a rowdy crowd but that is because it is 3000 people sitting in a tin can, they don't draw much if any better than other HL teams who happen to play in bigger nicer facilities. I get men's hoops drives the ship but their team isn't that great compared to the HL and they have the least upside of every program in the league not named YSU.
I am openly hoping the MVC passes them by again even if that means I have to read their fans complaining about everything all of the time.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Apr 6, 2017 9:40:22 GMT -6
Edit: sorry for all the data...if you're reading this on your phone, hold your phone horizontally so it's easier to read. Again, sorryI think the MVC will just add 1 school choosing between Belmont, Valpo, UIC, ect. We should have an answer soon regardless as it sounds like the AAC is meeting tomorrow to officially invite Wichita State and the MVC presidents are meeting on Sunday to discuss their next move. Looking at the bigger picture, I wonder if the public MVC schools that play football would ever combine with the other schools in the MVFC to create an all sports conference. That would have major re-alignment implications on the Midwest based mid-major leagues. It would probably look something like this: Missouri ValleySchool | State | Basketball Budget (2015) | Attendance (2017) | RPI (2017) | Current Conference | Northern Iowa | IA | $2,899,699
| 4,536
| 162 | Missouri Valley | Illinois State | IL | $2,452,961
| 5,943
| 33 | Missouri Valley | Missouri State | MO | $2,279,917
| 4,186
| 209 | Missouri Valley | Southern Illinois | IL | $2,241,413
| 4,483
| 145 | Missouri Valley | Indiana State | IN | $1,832,975
| 3,946
| 233 | Missouri Valley | North Dakota | ND | $1,579,108
| 1,970
| 144 | Big Sky | South Dakota State | SD | $1,443,001
| 2,321
| 155 | Summit League | North Dakota State | ND | $1,417,450
| 3,833
| 111 | Summit League | Western Illinois | IL | $1,238,197
| 778
| 325 | Summit League | South Dakota | SD | $1,156,551
| 2,192
| 116
| Summit League |
A new Midwest Private School League (taking the Summit League's autobid):School | State | Basketball Budget (2015) | Attendance (2017) | RPI (2017) | Current Conference | Denver | CO | $3,361,111
| 1,629
| 211
| Summit League
| Bradley | IL | $3,128,419
| 5,488
| 220 | Missouri Valley | Belmont
| TN | $2,951,040
| 2,423
| 60 | Ohio Valley | Evansville
| IN | $2,899,667
| 4,116
| 188
| Missouri Valley | Loyola
| IL | $2,745,553
| 1,862
| 182
| Missouri Valley | Oral Roberts
| OK | $2,741,483
| 2,828
| 292
| Summit League | Valparaiso
| IN | $2,666,213
| 3,086
| 71
| Horizon League | Drake
| IA | $2,472,212
| 2,843
| 314
| Missouri Valley | Detroit Mercy
| MI | $2,467,735
| 1,709
| 287
| Horizon League | Lipscomb?
| TN | $1,756,611
| 1,632
| 189
| Atlantic Sun |
The Horizon League is left with:School | State | Basketball Budget (2015) | Attendance (2017) | RPI (2017) | Current Conference | UWM | WI | $2,877,237
| 1,461
| 258
| Horizon League | Wright State | OH | $2,445,427
| 4,033
| 115
| Horizon League | UIC | IL | $2,231,609
| 2,802
| 250
| Horizon League | Cleveland State
| OH | $2,172,463
| 1,400
| 260
| Horizon League | Oakland | MI | $2,111,833
| 2,876
| 109
| Horizon League
| UWGB | WI | $1,776,757
| 2,948
| 158
| Horizon League | Northern Kentucky
| KY | $1,623,294
| 2,824
| 87
| Horizon League
| IUPUI
| IN
| $1,564,479
| 962
| 218
| Summit League | Fort Wayne | IN | $1,296,206
| 2,027
| 178
| Summit League | Nebraska-Omaha
| NE | $1,288,481
| 1,816
| 138
| Summit League |
The OVC would stay the same pretty much besides losing Belmont and taking on Youngstown State. Obviously this won't happen anytime in the near future but who knows.
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Post by yayphoenixyay on Apr 7, 2017 12:54:48 GMT -6
Wichita State has now officially joined the AAC. Could lead to a shake up around the other mid-major leagues, including the HL
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 12, 2017 7:40:15 GMT -6
I have to wonder with the current makeup of the MVC, is there a single team or even three that they could add that would still make March Madness relevant for CBS? Which three fan bases can they add that will travel like Wichita State or Creighton did? I think the MVC is a good league but I would slightly caution any schools joining the MVC that it at best looks like a slightly better HL or Summit. That isn't bad but it feels like they are at a fork in the road. On one hand they could resume their place by the A10 and WCC as a solid non P5 hoops league and on the other hand they could be on their way to being CUSA and having a bunch of leftovers who want to play high level football. If I was in charge of making this decision for a school that doesn't play or plan to play a decent level of football I might look long and hard at other options before joining the MVC. I do think that a major shift in affiliation for many schools doesn't seem that far fetched right now.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 24, 2017 13:23:18 GMT -6
The world of social media is an interesting place. Sometime rumors take on a life of their own. For the longest time Valpo to the MVC was the big impact on the HL. I see a lot of people beating the drum for Milwaukee now. Perhaps PantherU will share some additional insight beyond just the obvious of if it is real they have to jump on it.
I bring this up because it was just three weeks ago that Omaha and UMKC were in play for the MVC. Lately Murray State is the only one with any real information coming out indicating they are getting ready for an actual offer.
All is gone quiet for the HL and no news is being leaked. Is the MVC and any prospective members able to keep this information locked up, are HL members not in play, or is the MVC not looking to rush to make a move?
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Post by gbbrl97 on Apr 25, 2017 6:05:37 GMT -6
The HL is at a crossroads right now, but as a conference, we will have to wait to see what events unfold from the MVC before the HL can move ahead.
I can see Valpo, Murray State, AND Omaha leaving their respective conferences. I say the MVC goes to 12 members.
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Post by phoenixphan87 on Apr 25, 2017 8:38:59 GMT -6
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Apr 25, 2017 9:53:59 GMT -6
With the Bucks and Marquette in town I don't see UWM filling their home court. For the MVC the only attraction might be claiming a TV media market. Judging from the footprint of the MVC -- Omaha, UMKC or Valpo might be the best fit. Even Northern Illinois would be a better fit.
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