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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Aug 4, 2023 11:28:46 GMT -6
There is a lot of p5 conference realignment. Today alone Oregon and Washington being added to big ten. The p5 schools may not have a lot of effect on the mid major schools. Chicago state women’s basketball said they wanted to be added to horizon. Makes sense would replace uic.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Aug 4, 2023 12:33:13 GMT -6
The short answer to this in my opinion is no schools will be added to the Horizon League right away. All of this movement is based on very large sums of TV money and trying to protect brand names at the school level. Oregon and Washington apparently wanted to stay in the Pac 12 until it has become clear the Pac 12 may not be the Pac 12 that we know. If they get left behind on the TV money they might get left being nationally. Imagine being Orgeon St, Washington St or Cal right now. They have fed off of bigger programs for a long time and at risk of becoming athletically irrelevant.
The trickle down effect will eventually impact the Horizon. The Pac 12 will grab some Mountain West teams so that they can still have a league. If the Mountain West wants to keep going they will grab some CUSA/Big Sky/MVFC teams. If the Dakota schools go to the Mountain West the Summit League could lose more teams or grab different teams to keep their league going. That is when the Horizon may be impacted.
Someone could make a case in a trickle down world that GB and Milwaukee end up playing in a rebranded Summit League. Someone could make a case that Kansas City, UNO or St Thomas end up in a revamped Horizon League if enough Summit football teams move up to the Mountain West.
From my behind my keyboard nobody will ever convince me that Chicago State should be added to the Horizon League. At some level you are measured by the company you keep. Chicago State brings a nice gym and an easy place to get to for the league. Beyond that they really don't offer anything that fits the Horizon League as institution, athletic program or fan base. Waiting on USI or Bellarmine are better options for the Horizon League. Doing nothing is a better option IMO.
Conference realignment has been going on for 40+ years. It is just magnified by the instant spread of information and the reaction people have to that information. In a few years I am sure the Horizon will look different. Just as it has every few years throughout the history of the league.
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Post by bayballer on Aug 4, 2023 12:33:46 GMT -6
The only realistic school the Horizon League can go after that adds much to the conference is St Thomas. And even if they add St Thomas, it would probably only be temporary as I feel like with how much they invest in their athletics, they could find themselves in the MVC in a matter of years.
Adding Chicago St would honesty bring the prestige of the conference down. It’s seems like the perception of CSU basketball is pretty bad, and until they change that I don’t think any conference wants them. Other realistic schools that geographically make sense would be SUIE, Southern Indiana, Eastern/Western Illinois, maybe SEMO or Lindenwood, but again, none of those schools really add much to the prestige of the conference. I guess if the Horizon League feels like they need to add schools to simply stay afloat, any of the OVC schools would probably be their best shot, not sure any of them would be interested in leaving the OVC though. I certainly don’t see any of the Dakota schools leaving the Summit, but those would probably be the best schools they could add at this point.
It will be interesting to see how realignment affects the Horizon League though. If they lose any of their top schools (NKU, Wright St, Milwaukee), the future of the conference could be in trouble. Obviously my biggest concern is that other conferences poach HL teams and GB gets left in the dust. I don’t think GB would be the last school picked up by another conference, but I also don’t think they’d draw much interest either. At least currently, a couple winning seasons could totally change that though.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Aug 4, 2023 12:57:12 GMT -6
It is interesting you bring up the perception of winning.
Milwaukee has been hot trash up until last year. The perception from winning does wonders.
Don't be fooled though, Milwaukee does not have a desirable athletic department. Some conference might buy a bill of goods that is Milwaukee Panthers athletics. Their one good season is masking a lot of warts. Buyer beware, under the covers is a Valpoish run operation.
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Post by bayballer on Aug 4, 2023 13:47:23 GMT -6
It is interesting you bring up the perception of winning. Milwaukee has been hot trash up until last year. The perception from winning does wonders. Don't be fooled though, Milwaukee does not have a desirable athletic department. Some conference might buy a bill of goods that is Milwaukee Panthers athletics. Their one good season is masking a lot of warts. Buyer beware, under the covers is a Valpoish run operation. Winning can only take you so far though. There’s no denying that from a money/market point of view, Milwaukee is a better option than GB. Maybe not drastically better, but we’re comparing a public university of 8k students to a public university of 33k students. And let’s be real, UIC was garbage for 2 decades before getting an invite to the MVC, so GB would need a Murray st like run to be a top candidate for a better conference.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Aug 4, 2023 14:13:00 GMT -6
UWM is totally irrelevant in the Milwaukee market as a sports property. At best they are the 5th best sports option in the winter.
Milwaukee has a full time undergrad enrollment of less than 16,000 students. That has been trending down for a long time.
I'm not telling anyone GB is going to be picked ahead of other schools in conference realignment. I am telling everyone GB has a better shot at being Murray St than Milwaukee has of being UIC let alone Pitt or Cincinnati.
From a facilities standpoint GB has a better women's arena basketball/volleyball arena, similar access to off campus men's arenas, a higher quality soccer field (though I dig the location for UWM's), has managed to build a top tier softball diamond while UWM has had to lease a baseball stadium far from campus. When the Dick Bennett Gym gets a refresh it will exceed the OHOW center.
Mix in factors like the local media actually covers GB or local people actually supporting GB financially (golf outing, steak fry, 1969 society) and my general point is GB is doing a hell of a lot more with what they have than Milwaukee has been able to do. On the basketball side alone though, one school is making waves on the heels of a 3 win season while the other is just doing what they've always done coming off of their best season in forever. UWM may eventually move up but this is not a school or athletic department that has given off any signs that they are aligned from top to bottom to be anything more than what they always have been.
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gbguy
Sophomore
Posts: 154
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Post by gbguy on Aug 4, 2023 20:00:08 GMT -6
Look at some of the Summit League schools. That’s you best bet for future members. Otherwise the Horizon is down near the bottom of the pecking order.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Aug 4, 2023 20:09:14 GMT -6
St. Thomas makes sense.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Aug 4, 2023 20:34:47 GMT -6
I doubt St Thomas would accept an HL invite, the Summit has been the better league lately. They are on pace to get an MVC invite should one become available.
I think Bellarmine would be a realistic and worthwhile add for the HL, I’d also settle for Southern Indiana since they’ve got a lot of potential. Other than those two though I don’t think it really makes sense to add to the league just to add.
Any league addition I think should come with a caveat that the HL would go back to a 22 game league schedule and no HL teams are allowed to schedule non-D1 games.
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Post by pirate13 on Aug 5, 2023 8:25:18 GMT -6
I don't think it's unrealistic to predict that the Horizon League is a better basketball league than the Summit League over the next few years. South Dakota State is always consistent, but Oral Roberts lost their coach and star player and North Dakota State isn't as good as they were a couple of years ago. It will be a very top heavy league whereas the Horizon is going to be much more balanced and competitive and as a league is trending in the right direction.
Either Bellarmine or Southern Indiana would be great additions for the HL. SIUE being a basketball school (i.e. no football) could make them a good fit plus their AD used to work at GB so there's already familiarity there. Western Illinois just changed leagues so I doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon.
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Post by uscg2012 on Aug 6, 2023 17:55:51 GMT -6
UWM is totally irrelevant in the Milwaukee market as a sports property. At best they are the 5th best sports option in the winter. Milwaukee has a full time undergrad enrollment of less than 16,000 students. That has been trending down for a long time. I'm not telling anyone GB is going to be picked ahead of other schools in conference realignment. I am telling everyone GB has a better shot at being Murray St than Milwaukee has of being UIC let alone Pitt or Cincinnati. From a facilities standpoint GB has a better women's arena basketball/volleyball arena, similar access to off campus men's arenas, a higher quality soccer field (though I dig the location for UWM's), has managed to build a top tier softball diamond while UWM has had to lease a baseball stadium far from campus. When the Dick Bennett Gym gets a refresh it will exceed the OHOW center. Mix in factors like the local media actually covers GB or local people actually supporting GB financially (golf outing, steak fry, 1969 society) and my general point is GB is doing a hell of a lot more with what they have than Milwaukee has been able to do. On the basketball side alone though, one school is making waves on the heels of a 3 win season while the other is just doing what they've always done coming off of their best season in forever. UWM may eventually move up but this is not a school or athletic department that has given off any signs that they are aligned from top to bottom to be anything more than what they always have been. Green Bay averaged more fans at their basketball games last year than UWM did. Doing that after only winning three games is all you need to know.
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Post by bayballer on Aug 9, 2023 20:55:25 GMT -6
So maybe Chicago St isn’t a bad team to add after all….
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Post by phoenixphan87 on Aug 10, 2023 10:35:36 GMT -6
So maybe Chicago St isn’t a bad team to add after all…. Chicago State was able to get a couple of talented recruits. Long term though, they will struggle to keep their current head coach and would be a horrible knee jerk addition to the league. The school almost went under a couple of years ago. I wouldn't be opposed to the league adding them as a affiliate member in certain sports (probably already happens) and then using that leverage to get home basketball games for certain teams. Chicago State will play anyone at this point.
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