Post by phearthephoenix on Mar 17, 2015 15:47:08 GMT -6
With the job opening at UIC and the talk of Wardle being a candidate for higher profile jobs, it got me thinking: what's the best coaching job in our conference?
Pretend that all 9 positions are available and each has a blank slate of a roster, this is strictly on the job itself (prestige, location, academics, fan base, budget, ect). What's the best job in the league in your opinion?
For reference, here's how much each school spent on men's basketball in 2013:
Post by phearthephoenix on Mar 17, 2015 16:09:00 GMT -6
Here's what I came up with:
1) Wright State - they have a decent budget, fans that lead the league in attendance every year, and great facilities. Negatives: Always will be 2nd fiddle to Dayton in town 2) Valparaiso - $2 mil budget is solid. Great location in basketball crazy Indiana and perfect distance from Chicago. Plenty of history and a bunch of banners hanging from the rafters. Negatives: the ARC really is a glorified high school gym and Valpo is a small town in the middle of nowhere. 3) Detroit - biggest budget in the league, fertile recruiting area, and they do have some history. Negative: Calihan Hall looks dull and dreary (I've never been there, tho) 4) UIC - Best location in the conference. Probably the best school in the conference (could be good and bad). Budget should be bigger for a school of this size. 5) Milwaukee - Good sized budget, good recruiting area and close enough to get Chicago kids. Negative: facilities issues, lots of administrative turnover but hopefully that has stopped. 6) Cleveland State - solid budget. Not a bad location. But: worst fans in the league and always going to be way behind all the pro teams and Ohio college teams 7) Oakland - Good location in the Detroit metro. Small-time gym but the atmosphere looks and feels good even when it's 50% full. 8) Green Bay - Top notch facilities with decent fan support. Worst location in the conference coupled with a miniscule budget. 9) Youngstown State - always going to be a football school first and foremost, even more so now with Jim Tressel as the president and Bo Pelini as the head coach. Terrible location, terrible budget, terrible fan support.
Post by ramsfan920 on Mar 17, 2015 16:27:07 GMT -6
Gb would be the worst location in the conference if they played on campus. You think weeknight games at the Resch are empty now we would struggle clearling 1000 some games. Talk about being in the middle of nowhere.
I voted for Milwaukee out of personal bias, but taking my alma mater out of the equation I think Brian hit it spot on with Wright State. The Nutter Center is a great building, the Setzer Pavilion is a high-major level practice facility, and they do average a good amount of fans. I think the state is flooded with programs, and it's a huge drawback for recruiting - you're fighting several mid-majors in-state for recruits. They didn't keep Norris Cole or Aaron Pogue in town for this reason IMO.
Second fiddle to Dayton is there but possibly temporary. A few years of WSU winning and Dayton losing could turn a town upside down.
1- Wright State 2- Valpo 3- Detroit 4- Milwaukee 5 Cleveland State 6 Oakland 7 UIC- (until they get it turned around) 8 Green Bay 9 Youngstown State
This. UIC has the same problem we do - shoddy administration - except they've gotten it from one guy, Jim Schmidt, for 20 years while we've had the revolving door since 2009. If they get the right coach, they could skyrocket.
Post by shooting the J on Mar 17, 2015 17:30:20 GMT -6
I move Green Bay up because they're the only hoops team in their region. I move Milwaukee and UIC down because they're irrelevant in their basketbal over-saturated markets.
------------------------------------------ "We got beat physically beat mentally beat internally and we're leaving in 20 minutes" Loyola coach Porter Moser to his team after loss to Green Bay Green Bay basketball is back! The Green Bay Way!
Post by knightlyfe920 on Mar 17, 2015 23:32:48 GMT -6
I'm not sure coaches really care about how many people are in the stands as long as their teams are taking care of business. What makes a good job is one that has great history, potential and a solid foundation to inherit. I'm not sure someone would turn down a job with potential like UIC just because there are more D1 teams in the area or they don't fill up the Pavilion on a regular basis.
Personally as a former lacrosse coach, I really enjoyed the challenge of rallying kids that were definitely the underdogs that had next to no funding and no support outside of their parents. There is something appealing to build something and to say "I did that." I understand division 1 athletics is lightyears beyond the Bay Valley Lacrosse Association, and coaches at that level want some sort of guarantee, but there is some appeal to a challenge for anyone.
1) Valpo - If they can renovate/expand the ARC a little, this would be the runaway #1, but they are barely #1 right now. Being just east of Chicago area and in the middle of the HS talent in IN makes this job desirable. Homer Drew has built a great foundation for this program during his tenure. 2) Wright St. - Solid budget. Great arena with the best fan attendance in the HL despite having Dayton down the road. If they had a solid contender winning 23-26 games a season, that place would be nearly full most games. I've been there when it's a packed house and the Nutter Center can be intimidating. 3) Detroit - (Echoing phearthephoenix's take) Biggest budget in the league, fertile recruiting area, and they do have some history. Callihan hall need some updating. This program has underachieved recently with the resources available. They were an HL power in the mid to late 90's under Perry Watson. But towards the end of the Watson era and the McCallum era has not netted the results fitting of this program. 4) UIC - Best location and in the most fertile recruiting area. (Echoing phearthephoenix's take) Budget should be bigger for a school of this size since it's nearly 30K students. It is a commuter campus which isn't conducive to solid fan attendance. 5) Milwaukee - (Echoing phearthephoenix's take) Good sized budget, good recruiting area and close enough to get Chicago kids. It will be interesting what the City of Milwaukee and the Bucks do with the proposed new arena. Sounds like if UWM Panther Arena is enveloped in the new Bucks area project, from what I've read that UWM will be 'taken care of' (I'd like blackpanthermke's take on this)....If that means a new arena adjacent to a new Bucks arena for UWM, that will help immensely for that program and will shoot up this list. Also, the AD turnover since Bud Haidet has held this program back (since 2009 they have had George Koonce who was not ready for that job, Dave Gilbert who was one interim AD, Rick Costello who was a horrible cultural fit, and then former Ohio St. AD Andy Geiger who was a long-term interim AD). Hopefully Amanda Braun will stabilize the ship.....This program should be more dominant than what it has done so far. 6) Cleveland State - Good budget, good arena but a bit too big for an HL program. Also a good recruiting area. But Cleveland is a VERY strong pro sports town and they always get lost in the sports shuffle. 7) Oakland - Good location in suburban Detroit, and the O-rena is nice, but small. The budget should be a little larger for a school that size (20K students). 8) Green Bay - (Echoing phearthephoenix's take) Top notch facilities with decent fan support, and not too far from Milwaukee and Chicago recruiting areas. Worst location in the conference coupled with a miniscule budget due to the size of the university (just under 7K students). 9) Youngstown State - (Echoing phearthephoenix's take) Cemented the fact that it will be a football school, with Jim Tressel running the school and Bo Pelini as the head coach. Shoestring budget and bad fan support.
Anybody who believes we'd be taken care of by the Bucks if they take our arena for their own are fooling themselves. The Bucks have no interest in a secondary facility. The best the Bucks would do is provide a curtain system to make Panther games only use the lower bowl. I have no interest in that because the arena would still be too big, and being at best the third of four-plus tenants would mean that the Panthers would be playing Sunday night and Tuesday afternoon games. No thanks.
Our athletic director, Amanda Braun, told me in early February that the Bucks were 'done' with our site. I believe her - she's always been very careful with her words (she is a lawyer, after all) and if the possibility were still there, she wouldn't have played it like she did in our short discussion.
While pressure from UWM and the Wisconsin Center District to look elsewhere was there, it sounds like the Journal Sentinel was actually the impediment to the Bucks gaining our site. It's not that they don't want out, they do. The problem is that the JS didn't think they could meet the NBA deadline to get out of the building. The Journal Sentinel would have to move their operations to a different building - hundreds of staff, tons of materials - and after that, the Bucks would have a costly and lengthy process of cleaning over a century's worth of toxic ink from underneath the building before they could build on it. I've heard the earliest the Bucks could move into that new arena would be the 2019-20 season. None of this paragraph is confirmed, all hearsay. But it does look like the Bucks are going to build north of the Bradley Center on land they already own.
It's for the best. Since we took out the Park East freeway, the corridor it used to stand on has been almost completely vacant. MSOE has built a parking garage/soccer field on the old freeway exit (you should google it, it's cool) and Aloft has built a hotel on the riverfront. West of that, though, the lot is huge and vacant. If the Bucks built on our building and the Journal, that lot would remain vacant. Now, they're very likely to build their arena directly adjacent to the lot, one block south. That's going to get developers interested in the lot, which is nothing but good for the city of Milwaukee.
Our practice situation is atrocious, and players have told me it's by far the #1 thing other schools use to recruit against us. If we fix that issue, that will solve a large amount of our problems.
As for the Phoenix, it's all about the constraints of the university. If Green Bay and Milwaukee had their university profiles switched, we'd be at best a low-major in the Summit and Green Bay would be at the very least one of the best programs in the MVC. Think about it - Green Bay's biggest problem with getting noticed is the Packers are a 365-day-a-year experience for fans. Would that change if UWGB were a 30,000 student, $700 million budget, $200 million endowment urban doctoral research university with a top 100 business school, top 10 architecture school, top 5 film school? UWGB would be far and away the biggest economic driver of northern Wisconsin, people would be clamoring for the school to be named Wisconsin State, and you'd be in the MVC, A-10, or maybe even the Big XII. You have the town to do it in, you just don't have the school.
On our side, Jay touched on it - we are invisible to people in the city of Milwaukee because there are so many sports teams. But all of the other stuff is true - the endowment, the budget, the enrollment, our status as a public urban doctoral research university, and all those rankings. We are the largest economic driver in southeast Wisconsin and nobody knows because our athletics programs are mid-majors and we don't win on the national level in our only revenue sport; or at least we haven't in a decade.
Green Bay's problem isn't its location, or the city. It's 100% the university being tiny (11th out of 13 UW Sytem 4-year schools) and because of that, an inability to keep up with the growing arms race of college sports. The Resch Center is great (get some first floor bathrooms though please) and the Kress is great. The profile of the university doesn't allow for expansion beyond this point, and the rest of the conference is still expanding budgets.
I don't like it, because even though we'll be able to grow with the rest of the conference, at some point the conference starts to get left behind even more by the high-majors. I hope costs get driven down.
I think WSU is the best job. They have good fans, facilities and are in a strong basketball region to recruit (granted it is competitive).
I think YSU is the worst job. They have the worst facilities, small fan base and lack of institutional support.
The other 7 schools all have good and bad points.
UIC is in a good market but doesn't have much of a fan base despite the size of the school.
Valpo has great fans and is close to Chicago but weak facilities and isn't for kids wanting a small town college feel.
GB has good fans and facilities but lack budget and is small school tucked away in the corner of the city.
Milwaukee has a good budget but looming facility questions and is back page news in Milwaukee. Also a negative for GB and Milwaukee is the MPS school system doesn't turn out college eligible players. A lot of guys who would be a fit for either go to JUCO or Prep schools and then end up in other parts of the country.
Detroit is in a fertile recruiting area but the facility is bad and if you aren't from Detroit as a recruit you probably won't like the location of the school.
Oakland has the same fertile recruiting area but has a small fan base.
Cleveland has decent facilities and recruiting base but like Milwaukee and UIC they are back page news in their local area.
So what I am getting at is every job is probably only as good as the coach they have. If that coach can overcome the barriers they can enhance their positives and win big as I think 8 of the 9 schools have enough to be competitive and win.
Thanks for spin on UWM's arena situation blackpanthermke. Looks like you guys will keep your home for a while. Hopefully UWM as a program will be a consistent winner again and hope the UWM-GB rivalry will always have conference title implications year in and year out, and make it that much more intense.
Since GB has been a 4-year institution since 1969, I don't think there has been enough time to develop the university historically. IMO, we should be the 3rd largest university in the UW-System (Madison @ 43-44K students), UWM (27-28K students), while GB is under 7K and smaller than most of the WIAC schools (except for Superior and River Falls) and UW-Parkside. I think UW-Oshkosh is the 3rs largest school in the UW system with 12-13K students.
However, you look at a school like Wright State (founded in 1967, so not that much older than GB), but has 17-18K students and has grown much more quickly. I'm not saying that GB should be that large, but should at least be twice the size it is currently.
I'm starting to think as the days go by that the Bucks are less and less likely to even be building a new arena at all. The funding has huge question marks, and everyone says they're all in.
I disagree. These guys won't make any money if they don't build an arena. They aren't in this to break even. They just want the maximum from other sources but in the end it will get done. It is just in the delicate dance of them wanting more and the public not wanting to seem like it caved in without some push back to lessen the cost.