|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on Mar 16, 2015 20:47:43 GMT -6
Adding Belmont and Murray State if available is a no brainer for the league. First none of the teams should be afraid of competition. If you are afraid to play better teams than D1 college hoops isn't the place for you.
Second, the way the league becomes a multi bid league is by having better teams. RPI as one indicator shows Valpo at 50, GB at 55, Murray State at 63, Belmont at 106, CSU at 128 and Oakland at 155. If all of these teams get to add those quality games to their schedule it lifts their number. If the top OVC teams get to drop 3 teams over 300 and 3 others from 289 to 292 it helps the numbers. The Horizon League right now is 16th rated and has several teams that look to be in trouble so just staying the course isn't going to make the league a multi big league.
Yet the MWC had 4 teams in the top 75, 5 total in the top 150 and even with 2 of their 11 over 300 they still were the 11th rated league and got 3 teams in the dance. The MVC only has 3 in the top 100, granted two are awesome, they were the 12th rated league with 4 over 246 and they got two in. Improving the league helps GB get more chances to dance.
Adding Chicago State hurts the league and all members in it.
|
|
|
Post by knightlyfe920 on Mar 17, 2015 10:54:19 GMT -6
Adding Belmont and Murray State if available is a no brainer for the league. First none of the teams should be afraid of competition. If you are afraid to play better teams than D1 college hoops isn't the place for you. Second, the way the league becomes a multi bid league is by having better teams. RPI as one indicator shows Valpo at 50, GB at 55, Murray State at 63, Belmont at 106, CSU at 128 and Oakland at 155. If all of these teams get to add those quality games to their schedule it lifts their number. If the top OVC teams get to drop 3 teams over 300 and 3 others from 289 to 292 it helps the numbers. The Horizon League right now is 16th rated and has several teams that look to be in trouble so just staying the course isn't going to make the league a multi big league. Yet the MWC had 4 teams in the top 75, 5 total in the top 150 and even with 2 of their 11 over 300 they still were the 11th rated league and got 3 teams in the dance. The MVC only has 3 in the top 100, granted two are awesome, they were the 12th rated league with 4 over 246 and they got two in. Improving the league helps GB get more chances to dance. Adding Chicago State hurts the league and all members in it. When it boils down to it, are you just rooting for league success or team success? In this case it's one or the other. If we add them, sure our clout as a conference improves but that leaves us as a team in the dust. Are you okay with having almost zero chance of success for many more years in exchange for having a good conference?
|
|
|
Post by phearthephoenix on Mar 17, 2015 15:34:54 GMT -6
So you and ramsfan would rather the HL does nothing and continue its downward slide (16th in RPI in this year) or add Chicago State and drop even further? That would result in crappier RPI's for everyone, crappier recruits, a crappier league, and a crappier seed in the NCAA Tournament where our league champion would get obliterated as a 15 or 16 seed.
Belmont lost twice to Wright State this year, granted they weren't the same team at the end of the season. And there's no way Murray State goes 16-0 playing a Horizon League schedule, Valpo beat them by 35 earlier this season. Those two schools would be great and exciting match-ups for basically everyone in our league.
Adding basketball schools that are the caliber of Belmont and Murray State would not only raise the conference profile but every school in the league would also benefit from playing against them twice a year (or however many league games) and the RPI boost that comes with it. That results in the possibility of more than just 1 bid to the tournament, more exposure with TV games, better recruits, and a better seed in the NCAA Tournament. As GBPhoenix1 said it's a no brainer.
|
|
|
Post by ramsfan920 on Mar 17, 2015 15:47:58 GMT -6
I don't care who they add or how they do it. Yes adding murray st and Belmont would be better for the conference as a whole but it would significantly decrease our chances of making the tournament
When you make it once every twenty years like gb does i don't care what seed they have or how bad they lose I jut want them to make it so I have some hope every two decades. Adding teams that like Belmont and murray st means we will be lucky to make it every 30-40 years but I agree it would make conference better.
Gbs best hope at this point is the field increasing to 96 or 128 teams and them getting rid of the nit.
|
|
|
Post by shooting the J on Mar 17, 2015 16:20:23 GMT -6
I don't care who they add or how they do it. Yes adding murray st and Belmont would be better for the conference as a whole but it would significantly decrease our chances of making the tournament When you make it once every twenty years like gb does i don't care what seed they have or how bad they lose I jut want them to make it so I have some hope every two decades. Adding teams that like Belmont and murray st means we will be lucky to make it every 30-40 years but I agree it would make conference better. Gbs best hope at this point is the field increasing to 96 or 128 teams and them getting rid of the nit. Green Bay barely missed the field a year ago, and the reason they didn't get the at-large bid was strength of schedule. A better conference would increase our odds of an at-large bid. However, it would be better if the new schools added a quality recruiting region to the conference.
|
|
|
Post by knightlyfe920 on Mar 17, 2015 23:25:15 GMT -6
Losing at least two extra games each year won't help our resumé. The fact is we are still a mid-major conference and are likely a one, MAYBE two bid league with more competition, but then again what are the odds that we beat out Valpo, CSU, Detroit, Oakland, Belmont and Murray State for that at-large bid? I'm not satisfied saying we are a potential two bid league unless we are one of the two bids, which is extremely unlikely. We have a much better shot of just getting streaky against the teams we've got and getting to the dance, because honestly, that's all I care about. I'm not the commissioner of the league, I don't care about revenues of second rate sports or the potential tv contracts.
|
|
|
Post by shooting the J on Mar 18, 2015 3:04:53 GMT -6
Losing at least two extra games each year won't help our resumé. The fact is we are still a mid-major conference and are likely a one, MAYBE two bid league with more competition, but then again what are the odds that we beat out Valpo, CSU, Detroit, Oakland, Belmont and Murray State for that at-large bid? I'm not satisfied saying we are a potential two bid league unless we are one of the two bids, which is extremely unlikely. We have a much better shot of just getting streaky against the teams we've got and getting to the dance, because honestly, that's all I care about. I'm not the commissioner of the league, I don't care about revenues of second rate sports or the potential tv contracts. I think most understand that revenue helps build budgets. Being on TV helps recruiting. If Green Bay could have landed it top recruiting targets the last 3 years, this team would have infinitely more skill and depth. Add Marcus Mashall, Alec Peters, and Lamonte Bearden, and this is just a different program. Big games bring fans, players want to be in big games.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on Mar 22, 2015 10:23:27 GMT -6
So you and ramsfan would rather the HL does nothing and continue its downward slide (16th in RPI in this year) or add Chicago State and drop even further? That would result in crappier RPI's for everyone, crappier recruits, a crappier league, and a crappier seed in the NCAA Tournament where our league champion would get obliterated as a 15 or 16 seed. Belmont lost twice to Wright State this year, granted they weren't the same team at the end of the season. And there's no way Murray State goes 16-0 playing a Horizon League schedule, Valpo beat them by 35 earlier this season. Those two schools would be great and exciting match-ups for basically everyone in our league. Adding basketball schools that are the caliber of Belmont and Murray State would not only raise the conference profile but every school in the league would also benefit from playing against them twice a year (or however many league games) and the RPI boost that comes with it. That results in the possibility of more than just 1 bid to the tournament, more exposure with TV games, better recruits, and a better seed in the NCAA Tournament. As GBPhoenix1 said it's a no brainer. Well said. Adding more teams makes the league better and makes multiple bids more likely. I can't understand why it is assumed that Valpo or Oakland will be the only ones able to compete with MSU or Belmont. Oakland just lost to UIC and then lost at home to Eastern Illinois in the CIT. If that happened to GB fans would go nuts about GB's coaching, yet Oakland can do it and suddenly they are going to run away with the HL. For all we know Valpo won't have Bryce Drew in two weeks, that has to change things just a little bit doesn't it? Murray State has an NBA level PG on their team right now and didn't dance. Prohm might go to Alabama as well. Things change and there are lots of reasons that these teams may be up or down. There are lots of reasons for GB to be up or down but we shouldn't just sit back with our hands up in the air hoping to play in the worst league to back into the dance.
|
|
|
Post by knightlife920 on Mar 22, 2015 19:26:30 GMT -6
So you and ramsfan would rather the HL does nothing and continue its downward slide (16th in RPI in this year) or add Chicago State and drop even further? That would result in crappier RPI's for everyone, crappier recruits, a crappier league, and a crappier seed in the NCAA Tournament where our league champion would get obliterated as a 15 or 16 seed. Belmont lost twice to Wright State this year, granted they weren't the same team at the end of the season. And there's no way Murray State goes 16-0 playing a Horizon League schedule, Valpo beat them by 35 earlier this season. Those two schools would be great and exciting match-ups for basically everyone in our league. Adding basketball schools that are the caliber of Belmont and Murray State would not only raise the conference profile but every school in the league would also benefit from playing against them twice a year (or however many league games) and the RPI boost that comes with it. That results in the possibility of more than just 1 bid to the tournament, more exposure with TV games, better recruits, and a better seed in the NCAA Tournament. As GBPhoenix1 said it's a no brainer. Well said. Adding more teams makes the league better and makes multiple bids more likely. I can't understand why it is assumed that Valpo or Oakland will be the only ones able to compete with MSU or Belmont. Oakland just lost to UIC and then lost at home to Eastern Illinois in the CIT. If that happened to GB fans would go nuts about GB's coaching, yet Oakland can do it and suddenly they are going to run away with the HL. For all we know Valpo won't have Bryce Drew in two weeks, that has to change things just a little bit doesn't it? Murray State has an NBA level PG on their team right now and didn't dance. Prohm might go to Alabama as well. Things change and there are lots of reasons that these teams may be up or down. There are lots of reasons for GB to be up or down but we shouldn't just sit back with our hands up in the air hoping to play in the worst league to back into the dance. I totally get where you're coming from, but at this point I'll take anything I can get, even if that means getting into the tourney by way of beating up on terrible teams. Adding teams adds way more variables to the equation and makes a bid for US that much less likely, I don't care about the rest of the league's success. Add those two teams and the likelihood of us dancing anytime in the foreseeable future goes out the window most likely.
|
|
|
Post by gbbrl97 on Mar 23, 2015 7:26:27 GMT -6
If expansion is going to happen this year, it will either add 1 team (probably NKU), which won't help our RPI but still keeps us from playing 2-3 DII schools in which those victories are not even counted in the NCAA Men's Tournament Selection Committee's metrics, which may numb the eye test for committee members when you have 2 less D1 victories on your record. Or, go big and go with Belmont, Murray State, and NKU, but would stay at a 16 game schedule (withy 2 divisions and play one game against teams from the other division) or would we go to 18 games (and play an extra couple of games against the other division?)
I still have doubts if Murray State would even leave the OVC. They have a FCS football program to consider and if the OVC will let them keep their membership in football or not.......If that's the case and Murray State stays in the OVC, would Lipscomb even consider HL membership? Like NKU, they won't do us any favors in the RPI department and their only purpose is to be a travel partner for Belmont.
|
|
|
Post by phearthephoenix on Apr 24, 2015 16:19:01 GMT -6
Horizon League to add 10th program: t.co/mrlU95HvmtI'm betting this will be Northern Kentucky
|
|
|
Post by phoenixphan87 on Apr 24, 2015 16:53:53 GMT -6
From what I read, Belmont and Murray State were looking to join together or with a travel partner. NKU makes the most sense at this point and maybe in time those two will join to make 12 teams.
|
|
|
Post by gbbrl97 on Apr 25, 2015 19:36:20 GMT -6
It has to be NKU, unless Dayton decided to leave the A-10 for the HL......;-)
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on Apr 26, 2015 9:05:47 GMT -6
Of the usual suspects I agree this looks like NKU. They would make the most sense as well if the league is serious about trying to add Belmont and Murray State. One immediate positive is that it likely removes one d2 game from the home slate as all teams will add another conference game. Also, for myself I want to attend a Phoenix game at every road venue so this adds another destination to my list.
|
|
|
Post by gbbrl97 on Apr 29, 2015 13:17:10 GMT -6
Any follow up on this? I thought an announcement was imminent.
|
|