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Post by cuchillo on Jan 22, 2023 21:53:57 GMT -6
The Milwaukee metro area is 5x GB. The Chicago area is 25x GB. These schools have enrollment that is 2x to 3x what GB has. They have living alumni that is 3x GB. UWM had a 2000 person crowd in the box score for a Saturday night battle for first place half way through the season. With large metro areas, large alumni bases, large student bodies and lots of momentum these schools are still struggling to engage 2500 people for a game. What sporting event was happening in Milwaukee last night that was an option for Milwaukee sports fans? None. UWM's hoops account actually tweeted that this week. If the disengaged but not disconnected fans don't bother to come when there is a fresh start, nobody else will either. Nobody wants to be a part of something that is small time. Going to games and having a good atmosphere provides social validation for casual fans to go. Milwaukee is first hand learning this right now. They have 5 or 6 home games left. They are just getting their base back. They needed their base in November. By the time they build any major momentum at the gate the season is going to be over and Lundy is going to have a new job. I hate to break it to you, but you really need to understand that not everybody thinks the same way you do. There are myriad interests today. Attendance everywhere is down except at the highest levels of sport. You said earlier it doesn't pay to discuss the past? Society has changed. What used to be an average crowd previously is now a great one. Crowds of 5k or more aren't coming back at this level with rare exceptions.
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gbguy
Sophomore
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Post by gbguy on Jan 23, 2023 5:51:05 GMT -6
The Milwaukee metro area is 5x GB. The Chicago area is 25x GB. These schools have enrollment that is 2x to 3x what GB has. They have living alumni that is 3x GB. UWM had a 2000 person crowd in the box score for a Saturday night battle for first place half way through the season. With large metro areas, large alumni bases, large student bodies and lots of momentum these schools are still struggling to engage 2500 people for a game. What sporting event was happening in Milwaukee last night that was an option for Milwaukee sports fans? None. UWM's hoops account actually tweeted that this week. If the disengaged but not disconnected fans don't bother to come when there is a fresh start, nobody else will either. Nobody wants to be a part of something that is small time. Going to games and having a good atmosphere provides social validation for casual fans to go. Milwaukee is first hand learning this right now. They have 5 or 6 home games left. They are just getting their base back. They needed their base in November. By the time they build any major momentum at the gate the season is going to be over and Lundy is going to have a new job. I hate to break it to you, but you really need to understand that not everybody thinks the same way you do. There are myriad interests today. Attendance everywhere is down except at the highest levels of sport. You said earlier it doesn't pay to discuss the past? Society has changed. What used to be an average crowd previously is now a great one. Crowds of 5k or more aren't coming back at this level with rare exceptions. Yeah disengaged fans aren’t coming back until the winning happens. They’re not coming to games to help provide a vibrant atmosphere. There are too many options for entertainment both in the community and at home. I agree that the Facebook comments are ridiculous, but that’s the nature of social media. It’s just easy to bitch behind a keyboard. That’s not changing either.
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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 23, 2023 6:55:19 GMT -6
I hate to break it to you, but you really need to understand that not everybody thinks the same way you do. There are myriad interests today. Attendance everywhere is down except at the highest levels of sport. You said earlier it doesn't pay to discuss the past? Society has changed. What used to be an average crowd previously is now a great one. Crowds of 5k or more aren't coming back at this level with rare exceptions. Yeah disengaged fans aren’t coming back until the winning happens. They’re not coming to games to help provide a vibrant atmosphere. There are too many options for entertainment both in the community and at home. I agree that the Facebook comments are ridiculous, but that’s the nature of social media. It’s just easy to bitch behind a keyboard. That’s not changing either. Winning solves a lot of our issues. Heck coming off a 5 win season, we sold out a golf tournament and made 50K on a Monday morning. The fans are there and will come back if wins start to come back Cuchillo, Appreciate the banter. I am curious if you were the AD for the day what would you do? Who are you reaching out to in regards to our next coach?
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Post by cuchillo on Jan 23, 2023 7:21:33 GMT -6
Yeah disengaged fans aren’t coming back until the winning happens. They’re not coming to games to help provide a vibrant atmosphere. There are too many options for entertainment both in the community and at home. I agree that the Facebook comments are ridiculous, but that’s the nature of social media. It’s just easy to bitch behind a keyboard. That’s not changing either. Winning solves a lot of our issues. Heck coming off a 5 win season, we sold out a golf tournament and made 50K on a Monday morning. The fans are there and will come back if wins start to come back Cuchillo, Appreciate the banter. I am curious if you were the AD for the day what would you do? Who are you reaching out to in regards to our next coach? Not to be coy, but how big is the salary pool I have to work with? That will matter in the next search. A lot. That said if I have a blank check then it is Ben McCollum and tell him you have carte blanche to turn this around. If there's a limit on the the salary then in all honesty it may not matter who the coach is. I would NOT go the D3 route. The next coach will either have to be a proven commodity (hopefully not a D1 retread) with firm belief in their system and program, or a young D1 assistant with some piss and vinegar who believes in himself. Somebody who can bring some juice in contrast to the current somnolence. Enormous pressure on Josh Moon. It the next hire isn't successful, that may be the end of Division I in Green Bay.
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gbguy
Sophomore
Posts: 154
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Post by gbguy on Jan 23, 2023 7:51:57 GMT -6
UWGB will not have a "blank check" for the next coach. Right now, my guess is they have a salary pool for the entire operation of about $400-450,000. (Swanson and Owens both make around $90k, Pritzl around $60k, the Director of Ops doesn't make much) My guess is that they would have to bump that up by at least 50% to be competitive.
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Post by cuchillo on Jan 23, 2023 8:09:12 GMT -6
UWGB will not have a "blank check" for the next coach. Right now, my guess is they have a salary pool for the entire operation of about $400-450,000. (Swanson and Owens both make around $90k, Pritzl around $60k, the Director of Ops doesn't make much) My guess is that they would have to bump that up by at least 50% to be competitive. Nobody gets a blank check, of course. But it will take at least $350k to get McCollum here if not more. If they aren't willing or able to go higher than where they've been recently, then it's a crapshoot.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2023 8:22:24 GMT -6
The Milwaukee metro area is 5x GB. The Chicago area is 25x GB. These schools have enrollment that is 2x to 3x what GB has. They have living alumni that is 3x GB. UWM had a 2000 person crowd in the box score for a Saturday night battle for first place half way through the season. With large metro areas, large alumni bases, large student bodies and lots of momentum these schools are still struggling to engage 2500 people for a game. What sporting event was happening in Milwaukee last night that was an option for Milwaukee sports fans? None. UWM's hoops account actually tweeted that this week. If the disengaged but not disconnected fans don't bother to come when there is a fresh start, nobody else will either. Nobody wants to be a part of something that is small time. Going to games and having a good atmosphere provides social validation for casual fans to go. Milwaukee is first hand learning this right now. They have 5 or 6 home games left. They are just getting their base back. They needed their base in November. By the time they build any major momentum at the gate the season is going to be over and Lundy is going to have a new job. I hate to break it to you, but you really need to understand that not everybody thinks the same way you do. There are myriad interests today. Attendance everywhere is down except at the highest levels of sport. You said earlier it doesn't pay to discuss the past? Society has changed. What used to be an average crowd previously is now a great one. Crowds of 5k or more aren't coming back at this level with rare exceptions. I hate to break it to you but you aren't thinking at all. This entire thread has been about you saying people talking shit on Facebook shouldn't have to step up if they get the leadership change they want. These are people that haven't waited for the university to comment or make a move. These are people that took it up on themselves to find GB's social media and then took it upon themselves to make negative comments. It is hypocritical for them to follow your lead and say now I will wait for the university to invest more before I return. They didn't wait for the university to say or do anything before commenting. Everyone of this small group of people that is holding on to some anger should step up. They had no problem stepping up to their keyboard. Giving this group of people a pass to be active without being engaged in the next coach is a weak take. With that view you might as well just shut the whole program down because nobody will ever be expected to come to a game unless they are nationally ranked.
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Post by cuchillo on Jan 23, 2023 8:32:31 GMT -6
I hate to break it to you, but you really need to understand that not everybody thinks the same way you do. There are myriad interests today. Attendance everywhere is down except at the highest levels of sport. You said earlier it doesn't pay to discuss the past? Society has changed. What used to be an average crowd previously is now a great one. Crowds of 5k or more aren't coming back at this level with rare exceptions. I hate to break it to you but you aren't thinking at all. This entire thread has been about you saying people talking shit on Facebook shouldn't have to step up if they get the leadership change they want. These are people that haven't waited for the university to comment or make a move. These are people that took it up on themselves to find GB's social media and then took it upon themselves to make negative comments. It is hypocritical for them to follow your lead and say now I will wait for the university to invest more before I return. They didn't wait for the university to say or do anything before commenting. Everyone of this small group of people that is holding on to some anger should step up. They had no problem stepping up to their keyboard. Giving this group of people a pass to be active without being engaged in the next coach is a weak take. With that view you might as well just shut the whole program down because nobody will ever be expected to come to a game unless they are nationally ranked. There are a helluva lot more college basketball fans in the area than 100 Facebook posters. Last I checked they aren't storming the Resch or Kress gates either. I'm sorry but handing money over blindly for a poor product is a complete fallacy. Show that your product is improved and people will return. Nobody is expecting the Top 25. Just be competitive. They aren't.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2023 8:33:02 GMT -6
The Milwaukee metro area is 5x GB. The Chicago area is 25x GB. These schools have enrollment that is 2x to 3x what GB has. They have living alumni that is 3x GB. UWM had a 2000 person crowd in the box score for a Saturday night battle for first place half way through the season. With large metro areas, large alumni bases, large student bodies and lots of momentum these schools are still struggling to engage 2500 people for a game. What sporting event was happening in Milwaukee last night that was an option for Milwaukee sports fans? None. UWM's hoops account actually tweeted that this week. If the disengaged but not disconnected fans don't bother to come when there is a fresh start, nobody else will either. Nobody wants to be a part of something that is small time. Going to games and having a good atmosphere provides social validation for casual fans to go. Milwaukee is first hand learning this right now. They have 5 or 6 home games left. They are just getting their base back. They needed their base in November. By the time they build any major momentum at the gate the season is going to be over and Lundy is going to have a new job. I hate to break it to you, but you really need to understand that not everybody thinks the same way you do. There are myriad interests today. Attendance everywhere is down except at the highest levels of sport. You said earlier it doesn't pay to discuss the past? Society has changed. What used to be an average crowd previously is now a great one. Crowds of 5k or more aren't coming back at this level with rare exceptions. I also hate to break it to you but I never gave a number of what is a good crowd or expected crowd. You are the one stating nobody should be expected to come to a game until the university does it's part. I showed you two easy examples of the university doing it's part in places that have natural markets that are solid. Yet nobody cares. That's because most people don't understand what resources are needed or how those resources lead to wins. Most people think basketball is basketball and you get a good coach and that's it. I've not once in this thread said anything other than people who talk on social media about wanting a coaching change should have to reengage when they get it. Everything you have tried to refute that with is a position that just keeps getting worse. Good news for you. I have a day off of work today so I can keep going back and forth all day.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2023 8:36:20 GMT -6
I hate to break it to you but you aren't thinking at all. This entire thread has been about you saying people talking shit on Facebook shouldn't have to step up if they get the leadership change they want. These are people that haven't waited for the university to comment or make a move. These are people that took it up on themselves to find GB's social media and then took it upon themselves to make negative comments. It is hypocritical for them to follow your lead and say now I will wait for the university to invest more before I return. They didn't wait for the university to say or do anything before commenting. Everyone of this small group of people that is holding on to some anger should step up. They had no problem stepping up to their keyboard. Giving this group of people a pass to be active without being engaged in the next coach is a weak take. With that view you might as well just shut the whole program down because nobody will ever be expected to come to a game unless they are nationally ranked. There are a helluva lot more college basketball fans in the area than 100 Facebook posters. Last I checked they aren't storming the Resch or Kress gates either. I'm sorry but handing money over blindly for a poor product is a complete fallacy. Show that your product is improved and people will return. Nobody is expecting the Top 25. Just be competitive. They aren't. I know there are a lot more fans than that. I haven't written once in this thread that other people should show up until they have a reason, like winning. Do you even read my posts? Those people on social media talking, they might get what they want and there is nothing wrong with expecting them to reengage.
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Post by cuchillo on Jan 23, 2023 8:44:14 GMT -6
There are a helluva lot more college basketball fans in the area than 100 Facebook posters. Last I checked they aren't storming the Resch or Kress gates either. I'm sorry but handing money over blindly for a poor product is a complete fallacy. Show that your product is improved and people will return. Nobody is expecting the Top 25. Just be competitive. They aren't. I know there are a lot more fans than that. I haven't written once in this thread that other people should show up until they have a reason, like winning. Do you even read my posts? Those people on social media talking, they might get what they want and there is nothing wrong with expecting them to reengage. Whining about a social media posse reengaging is not going to solve the problem. It is a micro view of a macro issue. There is also nothing wrong with expecting the university to step up to the plate and support the program. Expecting ticket sales from social media complainers to help solve the problem is like running a bake sale when you need to pay for chemo.
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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 23, 2023 8:48:13 GMT -6
Winning solves a lot of our issues. Heck coming off a 5 win season, we sold out a golf tournament and made 50K on a Monday morning. The fans are there and will come back if wins start to come back Cuchillo, Appreciate the banter. I am curious if you were the AD for the day what would you do? Who are you reaching out to in regards to our next coach? Not to be coy, but how big is the salary pool I have to work with? That will matter in the next search. A lot. That said if I have a blank check then it is Ben McCollum and tell him you have carte blanche to turn this around. If there's a limit on the the salary then in all honesty it may not matter who the coach is. I would NOT go the D3 route. The next coach will either have to be a proven commodity (hopefully not a D1 retread) with firm belief in their system and program, or a young D1 assistant with some piss and vinegar who believes in himself. Somebody who can bring some juice in contrast to the current somnolence. Enormous pressure on Josh Moon. It the next hire isn't successful, that may be the end of Division I in Green Bay. Let’s go with 300K. Probably high but my hopes are high that we can rectify our current situation.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 23, 2023 8:59:09 GMT -6
I know there are a lot more fans than that. I haven't written once in this thread that other people should show up until they have a reason, like winning. Do you even read my posts? Those people on social media talking, they might get what they want and there is nothing wrong with expecting them to reengage. Whining about a social media posse reengaging is not going to solve the problem. It is a micro view of a macro issue. There is also nothing wrong with expecting the university to step up to the plate and support the program. Expecting ticket sales from social media complainers to help solve the problem is like running a bake sale when you need to pay for chemo. When have I given the university a pass on being cheap? Never. On this board, on social media or in person I never give them a pass. More than ever I believe the university has to step up. I also believe while that happens people who say they care can step up too. Sitting around and waiting for someone or something else is a helpless approach. For this small amount of social media haters, GB is currently having a bake sale that the customers are able to eat without paying. Asking for those people to shit or get off the pot doesn't hire Ben McCollum but that isn't the point. It either gets them engaged or gets them to leave and stop making the social media a cess pool. Either is a good outcome.
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Post by Heartbroken Phoenix Fan on Jan 23, 2023 15:58:47 GMT -6
I’ve asked on social media for the coach to be fired after pretty much every game.
But I also have been to 3 games this year and plan to attend a fourth.
On a “good year/team” I go to 6-7 games a year and have been doing so every year since 2011 other than 2021.
So I think I’ve earned a right to want the best for the program and not accept a second tier coach.
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