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Post by hudsonhawk on Nov 19, 2022 18:03:44 GMT -6
Building a team is a process. It is not going to happen over night. In his third year coach Ryan has had 3 different rosters with 3 guys that have 1 year of D1 experience. As players they have a lot of growing to do and most young players don't become real contributors until their junior year. I believe that a college coach deserves 4 to 6 years to build a team. As fans we have to be patient, so just RELAX. I would take anything a former player says with a grain of salt. Some of those guys are on their second school.
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Post by doublej on Nov 20, 2022 9:13:46 GMT -6
Building a team is a process. It is not going to happen over night. In his third year coach Ryan has had 3 different rosters with 3 guys that have 1 year of D1 experience. As players they have a lot of growing to do and most young players don't become real contributors until their junior year. I believe that a college coach deserves 4 to 6 years to build a team. As fans we have to be patient, so just RELAX. I would take anything a former player says with a grain of salt. Some of those guys are on their second school. I can't put it much better then this post as far as how I feel at the current moment so I'm not going to try to repeat this post in another way. The coaxhes knew taking this job when they did was going to be a challenge. We are a mid major school without the TV money and budget of others so a full rebuild of style and a program is going to take a while when you dont have players thst youve recruited on your team. No one is happy, fans/players/coaches alike about not getting a W yet this season but it's waaaaay to early to hit the panic button. I've rewatched the Badger game 3 times and was pleasently surprised at how many shots were truly challenged by our defense in that game. There were some open looks Bucky had but thats always going to happen in the course of a game for both teams. Wisconsin didn't bring their best game to the Kohl center but we also made them uncomfortable too which I thought was/is a great sign. One of Bo's goals and what he talked about alot was shooting more FT's then your opponent attempts in a game. That has also happened for a few games, the only issue is you need to make your FT's for thst to play a role in a win. Another good sign overall IMO. We are getting open looks on offense but the shots are not going down consistently at the moment. Guys like Blake and Davis are doing a fantastic job of penetrating but I would like to see more assertiveness once they get to the elbow and or paint area on either shooting the ball or dishing vs picking up their dribble and being in no mans land. This team needs someone on the perimeter to be an alpha like Cade on the block to help stop these dry spells they have every 2nd half. It feels like at times guys are being too passive and passing up on good shots to make another pass. Ive noticed that Nate has done this more then a few times. Has a clear 10 to 15 footer and is looking around to figure what to do or if someone else is open. Feels like the team is thinking too much at times on offense. Cade is a low block scorer at the moment and his jump shot isn't part of his game right now. We need someone to step up and take the reigns at the wing/guard spot to be another threat the other team has to worry about. Improvement overall is there, but now we need someone to step up and become an offensive leader to run with Cade regularly. Is a lineup change needed to shake things up? Time will tell
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Nov 20, 2022 10:16:09 GMT -6
Ryan Wade is a senior. And even when he got in the game I’m Jamaica he hit a step back three. He came to Green Bay late in the summer. So maybe he’a a little behind schedule learning the offense. He isn’t the most athletic player. But he had a productive two years at holy cross. Before transferring to central michigan. But his your point about giving more time other people makes I like brayden dailey and ryan wade should be given more time.
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Post by barnzoboy on Nov 20, 2022 11:41:52 GMT -6
You assume that based on what is exhibited in practice determines who is on the court, right? I mean you have to assume the coaches are judging talent correctly (from who is on the roster presently) and those are the guys on the court, if that's not accurate, well that's a whole other very serious problem. But yes as a fan, when we see things not working, of course we want to see the other guys, it's one of the only levers there are to pull. I'd be all for getting new guys in the game, let them miss shots if that's the case, it feels better than to see the same guy miss over and over again throughout the entire game, or the entire season as we have in at least one case. We could also extend the definition of when we are actually in garbage time to well over 5 minutes left in the game, so throw these guys in there. Or when we are on the short end of a 10-0 or similar type of scoring run, swap out 5 guys and maybe it won't become an 18-2 scoring run. Just try SOMETHING.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Nov 20, 2022 14:21:51 GMT -6
If Marcus Hall, cal klesmit, max wrecke. Brayden Dailey redshirted last year. Donovan Short and Jack Rose are playing and contributing they seem ahead of Brayden Daileys curve. Jedkins is redshirting. One of hall, klesmit, wrecke should hopefully be able to contribute right away?
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Post by cuchillo on Nov 21, 2022 8:35:56 GMT -6
My question is - if Charles Guthrie had not sacked Linc Darner and he was still the coach, would the program still be around .500 and finishing in the top half of the league?
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Nov 21, 2022 8:58:26 GMT -6
No is the answer. But it doesn’t matter the past is the past. Its hard to say what would happen today what would happen with a previous coach today because the league is different.
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Post by uscg2012 on Nov 21, 2022 9:06:17 GMT -6
My question is - if Charles Guthrie had not sacked Linc Darner and he was still the coach, would the program still be around .500 and finishing in the top half of the league? I like how used the “sacked” reference. Must be a soccer guy! Ha Go USA! Linc Darner was canned due to his lack of participation with the community which was affecting the amount of tickets being sold and money brought in to support the team. Coach Ryan filled the role of community support and raising money but as of now can’t win a basketball game. Right now it’s looking like a bad hire by the past administration.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on Nov 21, 2022 10:08:02 GMT -6
The final four candidates were brad underwood, jimmy foster, will ryan, and some notre dame assistant. And Gary Greszk threw his name for the third time. If Jimmie Foster had gotten the job he would made former Phoenix player raymon fletcher a assistant coach.
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Post by gbtruther on Nov 21, 2022 11:08:47 GMT -6
My question is - if Charles Guthrie had not sacked Linc Darner and he was still the coach, would the program still be around .500 and finishing in the top half of the league? The answer is undoubtedly yes and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. Under Linc we were on here complaining that the team was only 4th in conference and couldn't play defense. I am willing to bet all of us would be very content to see a Linc Darner team at this point in time. All of the reasons he got fired had nothing to do with basketball.
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Post by gbbrl97 on Nov 21, 2022 12:07:21 GMT -6
My question is - if Charles Guthrie had not sacked Linc Darner and he was still the coach, would the program still be around .500 and finishing in the top half of the league? The answer is undoubtedly yes and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. Under Linc we were on here complaining that the team was only 4th in conference and couldn't play defense. I am willing to bet all of us would be very content to see a Linc Darner team at this point in time. All of the reasons he got fired had nothing to do with basketball. We have also had scatterbrained approaches with the ADs since Ken Bohtof left for NKU. The timing of Charles Guthrie firing Linc then leaving himself after the following season was curious at best. With the advent of the transfer portal and NIL, could this change the kind of coach GB may hire assuming Ryan is fired (unless there is a miracle that happens between now and the end of the season). Getting a “system” guy, where you wait 2-3 years to beat fruit, may not work anymore. This program has only gotten worse where we should be seeing that progress by now.
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Post by yayphoenixyay on Nov 21, 2022 12:51:38 GMT -6
The answer is undoubtedly yes and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. Under Linc we were on here complaining that the team was only 4th in conference and couldn't play defense. I am willing to bet all of us would be very content to see a Linc Darner team at this point in time. All of the reasons he got fired had nothing to do with basketball. With the advent of the transfer portal and NIL, could this change the kind of coach GB may hire assuming Ryan is fired (unless there is a miracle that happens between now and the end of the season). Getting a “system” guy, where you wait 2-3 years to beat fruit, may not work anymore. This program has only gotten worse where we should be seeing that progress by now. I've been saying this from the get-go. This current approach does not work in D1 basketball anymore. Forcing a square peg in a round hole pretty much sums up what has been going on since Will took over. A common fallacy amongst college sports fans is that many assume there to be positive linear growth from year to year. That is simply not the case. Players may remain stagnant or even regress. I'd love if our current group of young guys can develop into something, but you cannot just assume that will happen and everything will click by year three, etc. I also think we need to have even deeper rotations, from a fan perspective, because if Will gets canned and there is another mass exodus, I'd rather have at least two or three guys that may or may not stick around that at least have some experience playing for this team, as opposed to putting all of our eggs in one basket with just a few guys.
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Post by Heartbroken Phoenix Fan on Nov 21, 2022 16:06:19 GMT -6
Here’s a simple yet perhaps effective idea.
Fire Ryan and have Freddie Owens be the interim coach. See if it lights a fire under the team at all and if not you move on end of next year.
Freddie has name recognition from playing at Wisconsin and can’t be any worse of a coach than Will Ryan.
I still wish Bo would have signed on as an assistant the first few years to help him get on his feet but I think that ship has sailed now. During Covid would have been the best time to do it as there wasn’t much for Bo to do with shutdowns anyway.
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Post by yayphoenixyay on Nov 21, 2022 16:35:52 GMT -6
Here’s a simple yet perhaps effective idea. Fire Ryan and have Freddie Owens be the interim coach. See if it lights a fire under the team at all and if not you move on end of next year. Freddie has name recognition from playing at Wisconsin and can’t be any worse of a coach than Will Ryan. I still wish Bo would have signed on as an assistant the first few years to help him get on his feet but I think that ship has sailed now. During Covid would have been the best time to do it as there wasn’t much for Bo to do with shutdowns anyway. I guess that wouldn’t be the worst option, it’s very clear Will just doesn’t have it. The worst case scenario is that we lose every game, and a bunch of guys leave, which is already possible as it is. If he succeeds, great, if not, I want to see some fresh blood that isn’t one of the good ole’ boys. Give me something out of the box. I don’t think we need a local guy or one that has pre-existing connections, like the Saul Phillips types. Give me a younger rising D2-3 or NAIA coach who has strung together successful years somewhere as a head coach, not a flash in the pan, one year “success story” that Will was who got the job because of his name. Two examples off the top of my head that could fit this mold: Elliott Steinmetz from Yeshiva, who has arguably done more with less than many other coaches because of his recruiting restrictions. It would honestly be hard to pry him away from there because it is a niche, unique situation. Josh Merkel from Randolph-Macon also could be interesting. Sustained success at both Salisbury and Randolph-Macon, who is now a perennial favorite in D3 basketball.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Nov 21, 2022 17:37:05 GMT -6
The common fallacy amongst college sports fans is all guys their teams sign will be good to start and get better.
It doesn't matter where you get the players from, some will be good and some won't. Some will get better and some won't.
Will going the high school route is his core strategy for the long term yet in this season the three leading scorers are new to the team from JUCO ranks.
UIC and UDM are two teams that come to mind that have gone with the new school methods and they've accomplished nothing. NKU and Northern Iowa do a lot with high school recruiting in this era and are very competitive.
This is just more BS spreading to try and force this issue. The method of player acquisition is less important than what you do once you have the players. Yeah we don't have anything to prove he will get over the hump but even in 2022 there is nothing wrong with getting HS players.
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