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Post by fansincebuss on May 10, 2021 19:38:43 GMT -6
If you couldn’t tell, a lot of the other posters here are just nostalgic for old timey college basketball, where every kid is a local that all “buy into the system” because that’s what they grew up watching etc. The fact of the matter is those days are long gone. Not only that, but the Ryan name likely doesn’t mean a whole lot to most kids, not only nationally, but locally as well, as even Bo has been out of coaching for several years. Contrary to what many here want, you have to build a team/system around what recruits and current players want and are used to, you can’t shoe-horn them into something and expect success. I want nothing but the best for this team, but appealing to nostalgia, a dwindling and elderly fan base, and “small ball fundamentals” aren’t always going to translate to wins. “Stability” and a “team identity” are merely worthless buzzwords if you’re only winning ten games a year. The name doesn't need to mean anything to kids, it's not what got him the job. It's his ability to build relationships. That's why Manny Ansong is here, and he'll go down as one the best transfer additions in GB history. Do we need to be concerned that some sloppy ballplayers recruited by Gimmick Darner didn't like Ryan's system? Nah. Plenty of kids still like winning. GB has improved it length and athleticism on the wing while also bringing in disciplined individuals, and that will pay off in wins. I am optimistic that Ryan will build a good team, but if you think his name had nothing to do with his hire, you are naive.
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Post by Panther on May 10, 2021 20:39:36 GMT -6
If you couldn’t tell, a lot of the other posters here are just nostalgic for old timey college basketball, where every kid is a local that all “buy into the system” because that’s what they grew up watching etc. The fact of the matter is those days are long gone. Not only that, but the Ryan name likely doesn’t mean a whole lot to most kids, not only nationally, but locally as well, as even Bo has been out of coaching for several years. Contrary to what many here want, you have to build a team/system around what recruits and current players want and are used to, you can’t shoe-horn them into something and expect success. I want nothing but the best for this team, but appealing to nostalgia, a dwindling and elderly fan base, and “small ball fundamentals” aren’t always going to translate to wins. “Stability” and a “team identity” are merely worthless buzzwords if you’re only winning ten games a year. The name doesn't need to mean anything to kids, it's not what got him the job. It's his ability to build relationships. That's why Manny Ansong is here, and he'll go down as one the best transfer additions in GB history. Do we need to be concerned that some sloppy ballplayers recruited by Gimmick Darner didn't like Ryan's system? Nah. Plenty of kids still like winning. GB has improved it length and athleticism on the wing while also bringing in disciplined individuals, and that will pay off in wins. How quickly we change on kids who will be in the Green Bay record book for the next 20 years... Interesting, and how you jump on a kid who hasn’t done much and is already 24 yrs old. 👀👀 Also, if Link was so gimmick, why does Golden State, Lakers, Nets, Dallas and Boston all do similar ? I fault Link for to much freedom for some and not having or running some plays at times when it would have helped.
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Post by shooting the J on May 10, 2021 21:08:11 GMT -6
The name doesn't need to mean anything to kids, it's not what got him the job. It's his ability to build relationships. That's why Manny Ansong is here, and he'll go down as one the best transfer additions in GB history. Do we need to be concerned that some sloppy ballplayers recruited by Gimmick Darner didn't like Ryan's system? Nah. Plenty of kids still like winning. GB has improved it length and athleticism on the wing while also bringing in disciplined individuals, and that will pay off in wins. How quickly we change on kids who will be in the Green Bay record book for the next 20 years... Interesting, and how you jump on a kid who hasn’t done much and is already 24 yrs old. 👀👀 Also, if Link was so gimmick, why does Golden State, Lakers, Nets, Dallas and Boston all do similar ? I fault Link for to much freedom for some and not having or running some plays at times when it would have helped. There's basically no similarities to what those NBA teams do and Linc. Funny how you say Ansong hasn't done much, never seen defense before? The team was dramatically better with him on the floor.
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Post by shooting the J on May 10, 2021 21:31:44 GMT -6
It's strange seeing anyone on a Green Bay message board trying to argue that you can't recruit winning players to this system, when Green Bay alum Tony Bennett just won a national title playing the exact same defense and an even slower offense.
4 of the 5 starters from that team are now in the NBA, despite not being highly ranked recruits.
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Post by Panther on May 10, 2021 21:41:07 GMT -6
How quickly we change on kids who will be in the Green Bay record book for the next 20 years... Interesting, and how you jump on a kid who hasn’t done much and is already 24 yrs old. 👀👀 Also, if Link was so gimmick, why does Golden State, Lakers, Nets, Dallas and Boston all do similar ? I fault Link for to much freedom for some and not having or running some plays at times when it would have helped. There's basically no similarities to what those NBA teams do and Linc. Funny how you say Ansong hasn't done much, never seen defense before? The team was dramatically better with him on the floor. I like Ansong and enjoyed watching him but I understand why too? No team was preparing for Ansong and Ansong wasn’t going up against the Best player on the other team night in and night out. Don’t let those numbers fool you. Also, the similarities is speed. No one is passing up a shot because coach want 5 passes. If you have it and can hit it and practice it, then take it...
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Post by shooting the J on May 10, 2021 21:45:53 GMT -6
With Green Bay offering 6'11" Ryan Schmitt, I would expect a decision soon. Both prospects sound like a good fit. Some coaches offer to multiple people with a 1, 2 or 3 choice as you have too. You can’t put all your eggs in one and then loose out on that one. If you do, that’s how you end up with last minute and not your top 3 choice. In this time, if kids taking long, then you not his first choice etc.... Same with coaches. Also if a coach offer late, the kid thinking the same thing, you only want me because you didn’t get what you wanted. It’s a chess game especially at mid and low level more so because all think they are high major and high major string their 3 and 4 option along like no one else... I don’t care what you think, not a lot of kids want to play slow or as slow as Ryan wants to play and this is a hard sell today. It concerns me with almost 1500 in the portal, all we got was Juco and Walk-ons. In some cases, walk-ons for two years. I don’t knock the kid as I love an underdog but it should concern you that that’s all we can get to commit. We taken just one JuCo, but multiple scholarship D1 transfers, plus the walk-ons.
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Post by Panther on May 10, 2021 21:49:25 GMT -6
It's strange seeing anyone on a Green Bay message board trying to argue that you can't recruit winning players to this system, when Green Bay alum Tony Bennett just won a national title playing the exact same defense and an even slower offense. 4 of the 5 starters from that team are now in the NBA, despite not being highly ranked recruits. So now Green Bay is getting talent like Tony Bennett ? Also, it’s interesting how Tony Bennett did it again. So we go back to something that took 10 years and yet you fire coaches after 3. I believe Bennett was hired in 2009 at Virginia.
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Post by shooting the J on May 10, 2021 21:49:31 GMT -6
There's basically no similarities to what those NBA teams do and Linc. Funny how you say Ansong hasn't done much, never seen defense before? The team was dramatically better with him on the floor. I like Ansong and enjoyed watching him but I understand why too? No team was preparing for Ansong and Ansong wasn’t going up against the Best player on the other team night in and night out. Don’t let those numbers fool you. Also, the similarities is speed. No one is passing up a shot because coach want 5 passes. If you have it and can hit it and practice it, then take it... Golden State passes more than anyone in the NBA. Settling for long 2s is why Lincs offense was woefully inefficient in the half court. Smart teams work for layups or 3s.
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Post by shooting the J on May 10, 2021 21:56:03 GMT -6
It's strange seeing anyone on a Green Bay message board trying to argue that you can't recruit winning players to this system, when Green Bay alum Tony Bennett just won a national title playing the exact same defense and an even slower offense. 4 of the 5 starters from that team are now in the NBA, despite not being highly ranked recruits. So now Green Bay is getting talent like Tony Bennett ? Also, it’s interesting how Tony Bennett did it again. So we go back to something that took 10 years and yet you fire coaches after 3. I believe Bennett was hired in 2009 at Virginia. What are you talking about? Linc was not fired after 3 years. Tony Bennett kept his job by elevating there program, Linc sent Green Bay backwards. Linc was fired after a losing season when you take out the D3 wins.
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Post by Panther on May 10, 2021 22:07:05 GMT -6
So now Green Bay is getting talent like Tony Bennett ? Also, it’s interesting how Tony Bennett did it again. So we go back to something that took 10 years and yet you fire coaches after 3. I believe Bennett was hired in 2009 at Virginia. What are you talking about? Linc was not fired after 3 years. Tony Bennett kept his job by elevating there program, Linc sent Green Bay backwards. Linc was fired after a losing season when you take out the D3 wins. I was making a point and not referencing Link being fired. I was stating you don’t have the patience to wait for someone to build a program. Also, loosing the best player on Paper since Bennett isn’t going backwards and replacing him with walk-ons is moving in right direction?
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Post by shooting the J on May 10, 2021 22:23:06 GMT -6
What are you talking about? Linc was not fired after 3 years. Tony Bennett kept his job by elevating there program, Linc sent Green Bay backwards. Linc was fired after a losing season when you take out the D3 wins. I was making a point and not referencing Link being fired. I was stating you don’t have the patience to wait for someone to build a program. Also, loosing the best player on Paper since Bennett isn’t going backwards and replacing him with walk-ons is moving in right direction? Green Bay has sent numerous players to the NBA since Bennett, plus had conference player of the year Kiefer Sykes. Whoever you're talking about doesn't even make the top ten since Bennett. Also, why do you keep lying about only landing walk-ons? Green Bay has landed multiple transfers that were on scholarship at bigger programs. Being disingenuous doesn't add to the discussion.
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Post by Panther on May 10, 2021 22:48:19 GMT -6
I was making a point and not referencing Link being fired. I was stating you don’t have the patience to wait for someone to build a program. Also, loosing the best player on Paper since Bennett isn’t going backwards and replacing him with walk-ons is moving in right direction? Green Bay has sent numerous players to the NBA since Bennett, plus had conference player of the year Kiefer Sykes. Whoever you're talking about doesn't even make the top ten since Bennett. Also, why do you keep lying about only landing walk-ons? Green Bay has landed multiple transfers that were on scholarship at bigger programs. Being disingenuous doesn't add to the discussion. Why not break the roster down for me ? Where are we at right now with the roster when June is around the corner and all can be on the campus ?
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 11, 2021 9:06:31 GMT -6
I am not going to pretend that giving Lucas a scholarship and then bringing in Tucker, Ivory, Listau and one more mystery player is what I had in mind when the season ended in February. I am not that worried though either. Coach Ryan doesn’t go after ball hogs, volume shooters and guys that have a low assist to turnover ratio. In addition he seems careful about guys that have bounced around a lot. The rest of the league seems willing to take some chances on guys and that may or may not work out for them. While the portal hasn’t given GB what I had in mind, it has given GB guys who are likely to fit what coach wants. Based on what I am seeing I don’t think the rest of the league is getting way better and GB is just spinning its wheels. For reference here is what the rest of the Horizon League landed via the transfer portal so far.
Wright State: Riley Voss F from Cornell 3.4ppg 2.3 rpg
Oakland: Jamal Cain F from Marquette 9.6ppg 6.3 rpg (4 year career avg 5.2& 3.9)
UIC: Brandon Battle F from Alabama State 11.6ppg 7.7rpg Demaria Franklin G from Tenn Tech 13.3ppg 43%FG 30.4%3FG
NKU: Seybian Sims G/F from North Dakota 6.3ppg 4.3 rpg Chris Brandon F from Detroit Mercy 5.2ppg 6.0rpg
Detroit Mercy: Kevin McAdoo G from Bradley 6.0ppg 33.6%FG 24.1%3FG (Avg 8.6ppg at EMU prior to Bradley) DJ Harvey F from Vanderbilt 6.3ppg 2.9rpg (was at Notre Dame for first two years) Jordan Phillips F from Texas Arlington 7.4ppg 2.7rpg (was at Arkansas for a year)
Milwaukee: Samba Kane C from San Francisco 2.7ppg 2.2rpg (was at Illinois for a year) Vincent Miszkiewicz F from D2 Purdue Northwest 12.3ppg 11.5rpg (6.5ppg 7.2rpg at Incarnate Word as a Freshman)
Cleveland State: Broc Finstuen G from Pacific 11.2ppg 5.7rpg 49.7%fg 33.3%3FG Nathanael Jack G from Florida State 3.5ppg 41.4%fg 35.4%3FG
Robert Morris: Ferron Flavors G from Oklahoma State 3.4ppg 31.5%FG 26%3FG (Cal Baptist 13.4ppg and 12.3ppg at Fairfield) Rasheen Dunn G from St John’s 9.4ppg 41.2%fg .156%3FG 87 assists to 52 turnovers (DNP for Cleveland State and averaged13ppg and 15ppg at St Francis Brooklyn) Michael Green G from Bryant 16ppg 37.3%fg 32.5%3fg 3.1 assists to 2.4 turnovers per game Justin Winston F from St. Bonaventure career 8.3ppg 3.3rpg Brandon Stone F from LaSalle 3ppg 2.6rpg 36.3%fg Mattia Acunzo F from Toledo 5.9ppg 3.5rpg 52.9%fg 40.5%3FG
PFW: Damion Chong Qui G from Mount St Mary’s 15.1ppg 37.5%FG 33.6%3FG 4.2rpg 123 assists to 61 turnovers RJ Ogom F from Charleston No stats, redshirt his only season
YSU: Tevin Olison G from NAIA U of Cumberlands 23ppg 5rpg 51.7%fg 41.5%3FG Dwayne Cohill G from Dayton 3ppg Owen Long G from D2 Maryville 19.3ppg 47%fg 42.3%3fg 4.5rpg Chris Shelton G from Hampton 9.8ppg 49.2%fg 48.6%3FG
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 11, 2021 9:33:00 GMT -6
Much is made of the tempo Coach Ryan wants to play at. Much is made of anything that didn’t work after the fact. Players may prefer to play faster but it is not out of line to say that Coach Darner played about as fast as you could and he didn’t exactly mop on the recruiting front. Honestly he was horrible with in state recruiting and this state has produced a lot of high level mid major players who do it for teams that aren’t racing up and down the court and taking the first available shot.
Right, wrong or otherwise Badgers basketball and that culture is deeply engrained in players in this state. Guys from this state are not opposed to playing under control, to some extent it is what they know as that style goes deep to the early ages of grass roots hoops in this state.
Beyond that I believe that there are players out there that want to win more than anything and will figure out tempo later. Green Bay was #285 in tempo last season. By comparison San Diego State, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Oregon State, St Bonaventure, Maryland, Grand Canyon, Houston, Villanova, UCLA, Loyola Chicago, Wisconsin, Liberty, North Texas, Mount St Mary’s, UC Santa Barbara, Morehead State, UConn, Clemson and Virginia are all teams that made the tournament last year that played at a slower tempo than GB.
Louisville, Dayton, New Mexico State, St Mary’s, Davidson, Indiana, Wofford, Mississippi State, Montana, Kansas State, Mississippi, and NKU are other notable teams that played slower than GB.
The strategy is get your guys, teach what you believe and let the results show if it works or not. I have no reason to believe it won’t work once Coach has guys that want to play his way. I see other good programs having success playing slower and getting players. Efficiency > tempo
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 11, 2021 9:40:03 GMT -6
One final thought, Coach Ryan didn't get this job because he is Bo Ryan's son. Does being Bo Ryan's son help him to know more people in the hoops industry than some other coach in his early 40's, yes it probably does. He still has to be able to do something with the initial connections though. His first year high school recruiting class speaks for itself though. Those kids don't give a care that he is Bo's kid. Bo was done coaching when they were in 8th grade. They see Will as a guy that they want to play for at a school they want to go to.
The administration hired him because he was prepared, engaging, has a vision for how to lift GB basketball up and was willing to work at a price point they could afford. Being Bo Ryan's son may have prepared him for the job but it didn't get him the job.
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