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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 14, 2021 14:41:56 GMT -6
The game is at 6pm CST on ESPN+
Prior to yesterday Detroit had not practiced in 10 days due to Covid issues. We have seen a lot of teams struggle to be in game shape in the first game back. Detroit was also adding in several new players when they did last play. Without a lot of practice it is unlikely that they have meshed further. Hopefully GB can jump on them.
Detroit isn't deep but they are long and have a lot more shooters than they have had in the past. They still like to chuck up shots so they will take some bad shots. With bad shots comes weird rebounds, second chance points is something GB will need to really be mindful of.
I don't know if Detroit is still in their zone defense from the past few years but GB seems to have a good amount of patience and that could frustrate a team like UDM that isn't regarded as a top defensive team.
I always felt like Kam Hankerson played well in Detroit. Hopefully Moore's injury is healed enough for him to come back and carry on the tradition of kicking butt back in the area he went to high school.
I would love to get to a 4 game winning streak!!
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Post by phearthephoenix on Jan 15, 2021 15:23:52 GMT -6
Another series where I'm not sure what to expect. Conventional thinking says since Oakland swept Detroit and then Green Bay swept Oakland...GB should be able to handle Detroit. But the size that UDM has makes me a little nervous. GB will need to gang rebound - limit UDM's offensive rebounds / second chance opportunities while continuing to take care of the ball.
Hopefully 19 days without a game has them rusty and their shot a bit off. Like I said, just gotta make sure to crash the glass and not allow many second chances.
Probably will be a couple of tight games though. KenPom says UDM by 3, Vegas says UDM by 3.5 tonight.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Jan 15, 2021 19:41:43 GMT -6
Welp. I wish I could say just burn the tape and move on...but they’ve got to do it all over again tomorrow. That was just a good old fashioned ass kicking.
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Post by Heartbroken Phoenix Fan on Jan 15, 2021 19:43:09 GMT -6
Good defense tonight. So much for turning things around. The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight.
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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 15, 2021 19:52:51 GMT -6
Good defense tonight. So much for turning things around. The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight. Brutal 3 point defense.
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Post by tsissicran on Jan 15, 2021 20:00:06 GMT -6
Good defense tonight. So much for turning things around. The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight. Most of these players Linc Darner never worked with so get over it. Will Ryan is an inexperienced coach who is learning right along with the kids. You need to let the past go and move on.
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Post by Heartbroken Phoenix Fan on Jan 15, 2021 20:14:33 GMT -6
Good defense tonight. So much for turning things around. The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight. Most of these players Linc Darner never worked with so get over it. Will Ryan is an inexperienced coach who is learning right along with the kids. You need to let the past go and move on. Says the person related to Linc Darner and has no association to the program anymore, yet will do anything possible to defend his crappy coaching.
You're right. Ryan is learning on the job. What was Darner's excuse the last few years for crappy defense?
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Jan 15, 2021 20:21:03 GMT -6
This is a Mulligan season, any wins are found gold.
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Post by kmell822 on Jan 15, 2021 20:23:31 GMT -6
Most of these players Linc Darner never worked with so get over it. Will Ryan is an inexperienced coach who is learning right along with the kids. You need to let the past go and move on. Says the person related to Linc Darner and has no association to the program anymore, yet will do anything possible to defend his crappy coaching.
You're right. Ryan is learning on the job. What was Darner's excuse the last few years for crappy defense?
65% from 3 point land. ouch, that seems very unusual. I am thinking a person who can shoot threes in a gym by himself would be lucky to be that good. I didnt see the game - perhaps drive to the bigs and kick back out but they are not wisconsin etc so this type of loss is tough after what seemed to be an improvement in overall play.
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Post by tsissicran on Jan 15, 2021 20:40:31 GMT -6
Most of these players Linc Darner never worked with so get over it. Will Ryan is an inexperienced coach who is learning right along with the kids. You need to let the past go and move on. Says the person related to Linc Darner and has no association to the program anymore, yet will do anything possible to defend his crappy coaching.
You're right. Ryan is learning on the job. What was Darner's excuse the last few years for crappy defense?
I love how you critique coaching from a keyboard. My point is Darner is gone and yet you do not seem to be able to let it go. The team wins and everything is wonderful and they are making progress. They lose and all the sudden it becomes the fault of the previous coach who has zero interaction with this team. If you are truly a phoenix fan than maybe you should spend more energy focused on the present and future instead of stuck in the past. Give the new coaching staff and this young team time, there are going to be hiccups along the way.
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Post by timorousme on Jan 16, 2021 6:34:34 GMT -6
I love how you critique coaching from a keyboard. My point is Darner is gone and yet you do not seem to be able to let it go. The team wins and everything is wonderful and they are making progress. They lose and all the sudden it becomes the fault of the previous coach who has zero interaction with this team. If you are truly a phoenix fan than maybe you should spend more energy focused on the present and future instead of stuck in the past. Give the new coaching staff and this young team time, there are going to be hiccups along the way. As most people would read it, the comment "The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight" was not meant literally. Phoenix fans know that this loss is not "the fault of the previous coach" but rather the team's defensive play in this loss is being compared, through figurative language, to Darner's teams' poor defensive performances, which were an established trend over his seasons of coaching the team.
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Post by tsissicran on Jan 16, 2021 7:24:19 GMT -6
As most people would read it, the comment "The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight" was not meant literally. Phoenix fans know that this loss is not "the fault of the previous coach" but rather the team's defensive play in this loss is being compared, through figurative language, to Darner's teams' poor defensive performances, which were an established trend over his seasons of coaching the team. When a team plays fast, such as Darner's, it creates more possessions which leads to more scoring. Doesn't mean bad defense but people do not look at forced turnovers or anything like that. Darner's teams did struggle against the 3, I get that. The question now is when does it become Will Ryan's loss and Will Ryan's mistakes? Will Ryan is the one who is going to have to figure out how to make an in game adjustment to prevent a team from going 17/26 from 3 or more concerning why his team only scored 61 points.
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Post by uscg2012 on Jan 16, 2021 8:36:40 GMT -6
As most people would read it, the comment "The Linc Darner Fighting Phoenix rose from the dead tonight" was not meant literally. Phoenix fans know that this loss is not "the fault of the previous coach" but rather the team's defensive play in this loss is being compared, through figurative language, to Darner's teams' poor defensive performances, which were an established trend over his seasons of coaching the team. When a team plays fast, such as Darner's, it creates more possessions which leads to more scoring. Doesn't mean bad defense but people do not look at forced turnovers or anything like that. Darner's teams did struggle against the 3, I get that. The question now is when does it become Will Ryan's loss and Will Ryan's mistakes? Will Ryan is the one who is going to have to figure out how to make an in game adjustment to prevent a team from going 17/26 from 3 or more concerning why his team only scored 61 points. I’m all for three point defense getting better, always would harp on the Darner regime about it and will sure do the same thing with Coach Ryan. Shooting 65 percent is out of this world. Maybe it’s just Calihan Hall? Detroit always seems to shoot GB out of the gym there for some reason. The zone defense put on by Detroit last night also worked super well on GB. Forced too many turnovers. Hopefully we can limit the turnovers tonight and keep Detroit under 35 percent from down town. If we do that we win the game! Let’s goooooo
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jan 16, 2021 10:13:32 GMT -6
The game last night was pretty disgusting. With the entire team being on a steep learning curve this year, one thing I believe in is the team has to experience something first before it can improve it. I don't think Detroit is that good defensively but they are long. The first time GB played Mike Davis at Detroit in the 2018-19 season they went to Callahan Hall and lost 101-83 in a game that wasn't even that close. It was the same thing as last night. Making too long of passes or trying to make really tight bounce passes. The game was a mess. Yet the team saw it and then played them a month or so later and won 82-73. I don't know that GB can turn around a 25 point loss in a day but I know they can't play any worse than that now that they have seen. Detroit is going to come in with the same plan and GB is going to come in with some adjustments and experience. I expect a better game today.
Now the rebounding was junk for GB yesterday. Somebody needs to become GB's guy in that regard.
UDM was really hot yesterday. I can understand that if all of their shots were two feet set quality looks. That was not the case yesterday. I still think UDM is the kind of team that will shoot themselves out of game.
Will Ryan's defense is facing a foundational issue right now. Right now his defense and the players he has can not play his defense consistently. Every team puts GB in pick and roll situations and GB has struggled to consistently guard it against every team. It is a foundational issue because in my view he is setting the tone for the future of the program on how they will play defense. Yet by doing it right now the defense is not good.
Think about how many times you see the GB man guarding the ball get caught in the screen trying to go over it? The big man comes up while the guard recovers, the help tags the roller and then guys are scrambling to get back. Sometimes it looks like it is about to work every time and then other times I see guys totally lost. Cem for example was not good last night in the first half getting back to his guy and UDM scored several times in a row. Would they better right now if they switched everything, iced everything, drop covered or played zone? Maybe, but that isn't the foundation Will is trying to build.
With that said if you are building your foundation on defense I would like to see Will play the guys who have the tools to play it. I am not a coach and I am not at practice but I watch guys like Donavan Moore stay in front of the ball and not get caught in screens and I wonder why he doesn't play more. Then I see guys like Lucas caught in the screen a lot and wonder why he plays so much. Lets give the system its best chance to work now too.
While I am going here, it is time to start Kellogg again. No, not because he is that good or probably even deserves it. Instead because he hasn't done anything coming off the bench. He has really regressed. Claflin plays the same as a starter or reserve so lets try and get guys rolling again and win games.
One final thought on the game itself. Amari grabbed several early steals/loose balls and had fast break chances. He scored zero times on that. Twice he had Lucas ahead of him. How about some give and go action? The most important thing should be scoring the hoop and not doing it by yourself. When this team gets easy bucket chances they have to convert. They don't play with enough possessions to miss these opportunities.
As for the Darner comments in this thread. His defenses were ranked 172, 150, 248, 219 and 319 by Kenpom. They did give up points because of tempo but they just were not good defensive teams either the last three years. It is fine, that was his thing and has little impact on this season. I do think Will Ryan will get his players doing his things in the coming years and we won't compare because it will just be different.
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