|
Post by hudsonhawk on May 23, 2020 16:25:15 GMT -6
Whats wrong with making Herbst the head coach or at least a candidate, but only if the school can keep an open mind.
|
|
|
Post by fansincebuss on May 23, 2020 16:44:24 GMT -6
I think Herbst should be a candidate for the head coaching job and he might consider staying on as an assistant. He is a Wisconsin native with family in Wisconsin. I think he was instrumental in recruiting TT from Lacross.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 26, 2020 8:29:51 GMT -6
Gary is known as the kid stopper. Hopefully someone at Nicolet Drive will be known as the Gary stopper.
Here is some fun information. Currently 13 D1 head coaches work for their alma mater that most would deem successful. There are 5 head coaches that work for their alma mater that most would deem unsuccessful. There are 14 head coaches with less than 2 years on the job at their alma mater.
In the latest round of the coaching changes 20 head coaches were fired. Of those head coaches 5 were working for their alma mater.
I also found 13 current head coaches that used to work for their alma mater. Of those 9 had success but took new jobs on their own while 4 were fired.
Here is the thing people think a program man is needed to win. That isn't true. What appears to be needed is guys who are driven to win, have a personality people are attracted to, have worked at the D1 level in some capacity so they know the ins and outs of the ecosphere.
I can barely find one shred of evidence of guys actively coming from very low levels of basketball and doing well at the D1 level. That isn't to say it can't be done it is just hard. Do the people around the program really want to take that chance?
Also, we know instinctively that Terry Porter and Brad Soderberg are not Dick Bennett. We know Howard Moore and Rob Jeter are not Bo Ryan. Working for a guy might give you some insight into how the legends work but it doesn't mean you will be a legend.
This is a good job and just giving it to the local D3 coach because he's a program man in the view of some people around the program has just as much risk as it does reward. The vast majority of people who are passive fans from that era are like that would be cool to hire Gary. However, those people aren't coming back just for Gary. They will come back when the program decides to win prior to March. There are no short cuts to success, you can't flip a switch and reignite the program.
I don't know how much money they paid Linc to leave but imagine if they spent that same money on advertising instead. They might end up just as far ahead or further ahead then grabbing some low hanging fruit from the Bennett tree.
|
|
|
Post by FSCMocFan on May 26, 2020 11:17:57 GMT -6
I don't know how much money they paid Linc to leave but imagine if they spent that same money on advertising instead. They might end up just as far ahead or further ahead then grabbing some low hanging fruit from the Bennett tree. Yes! Well put.
|
|
|
Post by parkerj on May 27, 2020 2:51:39 GMT -6
Unless someone has insider info, it is pretty hard to come up with a list without naming the obvious options. Who would have come out and said Linc Darner last time around coming up from Florida Southern? If the right coach for the program is a D3 guy, hire the D3 guy. At the end of the day, lets find the right guy for the program. The points about the salary are interesting though. Many D1 assistants at P6 programs would have to take a pay cut. Considering the cost of living in GB and that this is one of only 357 D1 opportunities, I believe many would take a realistic pay cut. The opportunity to sit in that main chair may never come again. Thanks. TBH, you're totally right and if GB goes the assistant route I highly doubt my pick is on there. I kinda viewed it as a framework for the types of coaches the school would have with a lower budget. Lower-lever HC, Power Conference guy a little further down the bench, retread or a top assistant from a non-power school. If I list Adams and Foster gets the job? I'm not gonna feel much of a "gotcha"...same with Krabby/Dean Oliver (and TBH outside of my belief that a bunch of guys recruited to run wouldn't want to play anything resembling Bo Ryan's style, those two are interesting to me. They have slightly better resumes than their salaries indicate bc of increased roles following the Howard Moore tragedy) Not sure about many coaches taking a paycut due to cost of living. I suspect Jeter is making less at WIU than he was at Minnesota, but he's also not a young upstart looking for his shot. Soderberg would be the retread here, and despite my jokes on Twitter (which probably draw a lot of the ire on here lol) I think I made it clear I believe he'd be an awful hire. And this is all operating on the belief that the next hire will make about what Darner did. I never would've called Yaklich to UIC because there was no indication they'd be willing to spend so much more. If you guys roll out 350K+, that obviously changes everything.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 27, 2020 9:58:40 GMT -6
Money is relative but more so money and living is personal.
If I were hiring a coach with a family I would paint a picture that looks like this.
Depending on deductions 230k per year probably takes home $10,000 to $12,000 per month.
You can buy a huge house in the Howard Saumico school district for $2700/month. This puts you 10 minutes from the Resch and 20 minutes from the Kress. It gives you a well appointed home in a good school district. It leaves you 7k to 9k a month to live on while maintaining a super convenient life to help focus on basketball. So yeah taking a lateral pay or slight reduction on the surface doesn't sound good until you make it personal and let people know their entire family can thrive with this job.
UWM might pay more for their coaches but is Baldloss any further ahead than a guy coaching in GB for less money? Probably not.
This is a good job. I can see Gary getting interviewed because of his history but I highly doubt GB is looking at many/any other D3 coaches. The athletic director wants to move the needle, not signal GB hoops is small potatoes.
Very few P6 schools hire head coaches without head coaching experience. Taking the GB job puts guys on a path to reach higher levels.
TK got paid and is in a good program. He probably isn't good enough to move beyond that level.
BW got paid and is in position to move up another level.
LD and GB parted ways but LD did well enough that landing at the D1 level as a head coach next year is very possible.
I'm going to say it loud for the people in the back. This is a damn good job that can set guys up professionally while allowing them to thrive personally. It will attract a very good candidate pool if GB wants to.
|
|
|
Post by parkerj on May 27, 2020 11:05:09 GMT -6
I'm going to say it loud for the people in the back. This is a damn good job that can set guys up professionally while allowing them to thrive personally. It will attract a very good candidate pool if GB wants to. Sure! I just don't think that list would include a lot of young, higher paid Power Conference assistants. Or if it does they'll likely "not be selected." I could be wrong, but all of the recent hires by successful programs that pay their HC's 250k or less (plus SDSU, who did so before Nagy got poached) have been internal or lower division.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 27, 2020 15:58:11 GMT -6
In the past 14 seasons WIAC schools have won 5 national championships.
People tell me that private schools are at a disadvantage for hoops compared to the public schools.
Different people tell me that GB is at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the HL.
I can't possibly imagine a scenario where GB would hire any coaches with a track record of being unable to overcome disadvantages.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 29, 2020 11:55:55 GMT -6
I believe all applications have to be submitted by Sunday. We should know soon who was worth spending over $700,000 for.
If they hire someone who goes 12-8 or 13-7 in league play that actually isn't much better than going 11-7 like they have in the recent past. The next person needs to be able to go 14-6 or better to make a difference. I don't know who applied but hopefully somebody who can do that. Otherwise a lot of people might starting asking a lot more questions.
I think people were somewhat indifferent to Linc and GB parting ways but they might not be once they have the full picture to compare to.
This is my nice way of suggesting they better hit a home run and they better give whoever they hire the tools necessary to succeed.
|
|
|
Post by kmell822 on May 30, 2020 9:47:11 GMT -6
I believe all applications have to be submitted by Sunday. We should know soon who was worth spending over $700,000 for. If they hire someone who goes 12-8 or 13-7 in league play that actually isn't much better than going 11-7 like they have in the recent past. The next person needs to be able to go 14-6 or better to make a difference. I don't know who applied but hopefully somebody who can do that. Otherwise a lot of people might starting asking a lot more questions. I think people were somewhat indifferent to Linc and GB parting ways but they might not be once they have the full picture to compare to. This is my nice way of suggesting they better hit a home run and they better give whoever they hire the tools necessary to succeed. Given the loss of players, a new coach, tough non conference schedule and not much time to work into new coaches playbook - I think a 500 team would be considered a win this upcoming season.
|
|
|
Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 30, 2020 10:45:34 GMT -6
Next season is a different animal. I have no expectations for next year with the turnover. I'm speaking to the long term. In league play the program needs to win 14+ games per year and contending for the league title every year for this move to pay off.
When I see Brad Soderberg's name attached to the job and I look at his resume I can reasonably conclude he's not going to win 14+ league games a year on a regular basis. He is a 10 to 12 league win guy based on his previous winning percentages at the D1 level.
The bar needs to be super high for this change otherwise it wasn't worth making.
|
|
|
Post by kmell822 on May 30, 2020 11:11:51 GMT -6
Next season is a different animal. I have no expectations for next year with the turnover. I'm speaking to the long term. In league play the program needs to win 14+ games per year and contending for the league title every year for this move to pay off. When I see Brad Soderberg's name attached to the job and I look at his resume I can reasonably conclude he's not going to win 14+ league games a year on a regular basis. He is a 10 to 12 league win guy based on his previous winning percentages at the D1 level. The bar needs to be super high for this change otherwise it wasn't worth making. Gotcha - agreed all around
|
|
|
Post by hudsonhawk on May 31, 2020 13:39:57 GMT -6
The next coach has to be willing to tweek his system to fit the players around him. Personally I think that Terrence Thomson would thrive in Gary's system the wat Jeff Norgard did and so would Amari Davis and he could coach up Will and make him the player I think that he could become. My question with any of the candidates is who they will bring in as assistant coaches and what is there plan to grow the program and put fans in the stands. I think that it would be intersting to take a poll and see who the fans choice would be.
|
|
|
Post by uscg2012 on May 31, 2020 13:58:58 GMT -6
The next coach has to be willing to tweek his system to fit the players around him. Personally I think that Terrence Thomson would thrive in Gary's system the wat Jeff Norgard did and so would Amari Davis and he could coach up Will and make him the player I think that he could become. My question with any of the candidates is who they will bring in as assistant coaches and what is there plan to grow the program and put fans in the stands. I think that it would be intersting to take a poll and see who the fans choice would be. GG wouldn’t be in contention for any other D1 job in the country, so why should he be involved here? Not going to happen. The would set this program back five years.
|
|
|
Post by gonix on May 31, 2020 15:26:53 GMT -6
Gary deserves every opportunity to be the next head coach at UWGB! He checks a lot of boxes and has had a lot of success at a program that isn't the first pick at recess of programs in the state. If he was at a higher profile school in wisconsin, he would be a slam dunk no brainier! He is anyways! He is the right person to rally all the troops of this program. If he isn't hired the ripple affect of this decision will be felt for years to come. Some smoothing over that will need to be done on a lot of fronts. Plus he will be easy for fans, alumni (with $), and people on campus to identify with! Gary passes the eye test, good looking, well spoken, character values and He bleeds Phoenix Green!
Does anyone know if the AD or Coach Darner are doing the right thing for the assistant coaches? Compensation for them and their families in this time of need?
If Gary isn't the next head coach they need to name Randall Herbst Interim for the year. With the NCAA not allowing any recruiting on campus or off-campus until Aug 1, none of the candidates have seen the players in this state up-close and personal as Coach Herbst. His track record shows that he has been able to bring some of the top talent in the state on campus for visits, but Linc didn't have that connection to wis kids to close the deal.
With zero communication from the higher up administration! Lets hope they make one quality right decision for everyone evolved and do the right thing that people and alumni want.
|
|