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Post by thetulsawarrior on May 29, 2020 20:41:54 GMT -6
OK, now that I've cooled down a bit and considered what the Press Gazette's Scott Venci is reporting on the AD/Chancellor angle -- I see some of the logic. They view the program stalled out at a certain level, a malaise with a thinning out fanbase, a head coach not connecting with the boosters and community, and a poorly negotiated contract that isn't delivering for the school. The choice in their eyes -- take the hit now or keep hemorrhaging.
The bottom line is a combination of factors. The biggest one is a contract extension incentives package that failed to demand higher achievement. Ironically, higher performance provisions would have bought the coach more time and the school more patience. Contract extensions for third and fourth place finishes? Only a law school dropout and clueless AD would sign off on that. I want to hire Darner's attorney for my next divorce.
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Post by FSCMocFan on May 29, 2020 22:27:07 GMT -6
Why do I suspect that a few years from now the only person who will be happy with the outcome is Linc?
GB should be out promoting Linc for a wonderful new job at double his last salary to begin ASAP. The longer he's on the GB books the worse this is going to sit.
The State of Wisconsin and GB cannot afford this resolution. Somebody's going to pay. Your AD should be polishing his resume. He may need it soon.
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tdef
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by tdef on May 30, 2020 7:14:10 GMT -6
Article sounds like a lot of excuses by what seems to be an inexperienced Chancellor and an incompetent AD.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 30, 2020 8:15:58 GMT -6
Why do I suspect that a few years from now the only person who will be happy with the outcome is Linc? GB should be out promoting Linc for a wonderful new job at double his last salary to begin ASAP. The longer he's on the GB books the worse this is going to sit. The State of Wisconsin and GB cannot afford this resolution. Somebody's going to pay. Your AD should be polishing his resume. He may need it soon. Linc is only getting the 720k and he is getting that if he is working or not. There is no way with his background he won't have another coaching job by 2023. He will be most happy if he gets back to work for the 2021-22 season. Otherwise he is just using up money he would have made anyway but other than not working he won't be further ahead than he is now. Getting back to work next year lets him bank 480k and still make his new salary. I think if we have learned anything about the finances of UWGB it is we as the public don't know nearly what we think we do or what has been portrayed by some. A little tennis money here, a buy game there, a small cut to a hoops salary here, a booster earmarking money there and selling 3000 tickets to a game on a regular basis just might make it all work out. If anything I get the sense that the chancellor is going to allow the Athletic Director to get creative to make this work. So yeah if the school has to back up payments that the AD can't make or the AD hires a turd for a replacement then he too will need to brush up on his resume. I have the sense the school is trying to let the athletic department make moves to be less dependent on the teet of the university. The chancellor's comments about donors and fund raising are rather telling of their ambitions with athletics. The question I have that won't be answered and is too late to ask anyway is why not invest 240k per year into the program? Was Linc really that broken? A tv coaches show, a true marketing campaign, buying better games, adding more people to the sports information team or increasing the recruiting and travel budget all seem like better uses of this kind of money to me. Those uses probably all lead to the same end, increasing ticket sales and donations. The new coach better have wide shoulders because he or she will have a large burden to carry for the short term.
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Post by FSCMocFan on May 30, 2020 9:10:29 GMT -6
Exactly how much money he gets free and clear and how much he gets contingent on him not yet having another coaching job is a little confusing to me. It would be great if the actual text of the settlement agreement was available. Anybody have a "Linc" for that?
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Post by gonix on May 31, 2020 15:34:21 GMT -6
Does anyone know if President, AD, or Linc are doing the right thing to compensate the assistant coaches in any way? What is their status or are they getting kicked to the curb and every man for themselves?
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 31, 2020 16:05:42 GMT -6
No clue but that would seem to be an employer issue and not Linc's.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Jun 1, 2020 12:04:50 GMT -6
Exactly how much money he gets free and clear and how much he gets contingent on him not yet having another coaching job is a little confusing to me. It would be great if the actual text of the settlement agreement was available. Anybody have a "Linc" for that? Linc is getting: $120,000 - paid on May 21, 2020 $120,000 - paid on January 4, 2021 $480,000 - Monthly payments of $20,000 from May 2021 through April 2023 ($20,000 x 24) -------------- $720,000 guaranteed just to go away He gets an additional 12 months of $20,000 payments ($240,000) from May 1, 2023 through April 1, 2024 if he doesn't find another job. If he does find another coaching job his new salary would offset this additional money. If I'm understanding it correctly, if he takes the IUPUI job for example and they pay him $150,000 GB would still be on the hook for $90,000.
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Post by tsissicran on Jun 1, 2020 12:28:36 GMT -6
I have spent some time thinking about the article concerning Coach Darner's guaranteed payments. Regardless of the numerous excuses the Chancellor has given to justify this move it does not add up. The University is not saving 50% over the life of the contract while they are paying two coaches. In a time when so many are struggling due to the Pandemic I really do not think this justifies the action of the Chancellor and the Athletic Director.
Athletic programs are being cut all over due to the Pandemic. The tennis program was cut from Green Bay and scholarships taken away from the Swim program. If Green Bay loses one more sport they become D2. Period. Yes the Chancellor said this isn't going to happen but I highly doubt he would admit if that was in the plans.
Why is fundraising up to the Men's Basketball Coach? What exactly is the Athletic Directors job? Shouldn't this be his job? Obviously Coach Darner had to do a lot of fundraising based on the 5 money games his team had to play at the beginning of each season. Those games are to make money for low mid major schools and to pad the record of majors. Look at other schools in the Horizon League and see if they played as many paid games.
Due to these games Coach Darner's record was obviously affected. Major schools play teams like Green Bay because the chance of a low major team winning is not very likely. It pads the beginning of the majors schedule so when it is time for the NCAA tournament selection the record is better and not entirely dependent on conference games. Unfortunately for low majors your record is irrelevant. You have to win the conference tournament to advance. If your a major and finish 3rd in the conference that is really good. That team can still advance to NCAA tournament based on their over all record. If you are Green Bay and finish 3rd the fans think you are a mediocre coach. No one takes in to account how tough the schedule is at the beginning of the year or the toll all the traveling takes on the players.
Green Bay is a low mid major university. Green Bay is a difficult area to recruit. Coach Darner had a good record while at Green Bay. The team in the previous season did well in the CIT tournament which did draw fans to those games. People do not go to games like they did in years past. Just a fact. Everywhere. Times are different. And perhaps more would come if the record at the beginning of the year was better, but when you are fundraising for the athletic department your record suffers. That should not of been held against Coach Darner, but it was because people have unrealistic expectations. The group for 20-21 season looked promising. What I find so ironic is if Coach Darner would of been allowed to continue coaching and had a successful season he, more than likely, would of been looking to advance his career. He would of moved on like all the coaches prior to him. All looked to further their careers in coaching. That would of saved the University $720,000-$960,000.
So the Chancellor and the Athletic Director were not thinking about what is financially best for the University. I wish Coach Darner and his family all the best. To whomever is the next coach-good luck! Hope they have their fundraising skills up to par since they will need to fund their own salary.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jun 1, 2020 13:43:10 GMT -6
I don't agree with all of the above post but I think it is very well written and raises many valid points.
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Post by fansincebuss on Jun 1, 2020 14:50:50 GMT -6
My first thought when I read the chancellor's comments in the article was that he is ignoring the cost of a new coach, likely at a higher salary than Darner. It is difficult when your best hope is that he attempting to deceive you as opposed to he is that clueless.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Jun 1, 2020 20:35:56 GMT -6
I think one thing is clear to me about UWGB. For better or worse Dr. Alexander has a little more business man in him than we are probably used to for the leader of a public institution of higher learning.
When I read his comments the first time about saving 50% I thought this guy is full of...but then I thought about it for a little bit.
Now I don't approve of what happened to Linc. I especially don't like what that means for the 4 staff members. What I am about to write is coming from a perspective of we are not undoing what happened.
As others have said the chancellor is operating from an opportunity cost perspective. If the new coach is more popular with fans and the community they will bring in money that they may not have with Linc. Yes Linc would have continued to be very competitive in league play. Yes donations into athletics are at the highest levels they have ever been.
Dr. Alexander is telling you that we can get someone who can win just as much or more and that someone is going to bring in more money for the program. He is telling you he believes that person can bring in more than 720k over the next 3 years.
Lets estimate the new coach can draw 500 more people per game and each person is worth a net of $10. That is $5000 per game x 15 games or $75,000. If they can get 1000 more people it is $150,000. That isn't impossible based on where this program was just 4 years ago attendance wise.
If the community relates to the new coach and they bring in 250k per year or more this move makes sense.
Again I don't think firing Linc is the move I would have made. However, these guys are running this like a business and telling us they couldn't afford not to make this move. They were leaving money on the table that outweighs the cost of two coaches for the next 3 years.
We will have to check back in the spring of 2023 to see who was right.
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Post by barnzoboy on Jun 2, 2020 7:18:18 GMT -6
OK, now that I've cooled down a bit and considered what the Press Gazette's Scott Venci is reporting on the AD/Chancellor angle -- I see some of the logic. They view the program stalled out at a certain level, a malaise with a thinning out fanbase, a head coach not connecting with the boosters and community, and a poorly negotiated contract that isn't delivering for the school. The choice in their eyes -- take the hit now or keep hemorrhaging. The bottom line is a combination of factors. The biggest one is a contract extension incentives package that failed to demand higher achievement. Ironically, higher performance provisions would have bought the coach more time and the school more patience. Contract extensions for third and fourth place finishes? Only a law school dropout and clueless AD would sign off on that. I want to hire Darner's attorney for my next divorce. I agree with Tulsa's comments from 5/29/20 - the school got themselves stuck in a contract that was tremendously tilted in Linc's favor. How would the school ever get out of a contract like this other than maybe intentionally trying to tank a few seasons in a row, rooting for a 5th place or lower finish. I don't view a 4th place finish as being a high bar to get to, yet every time that happens, another year gets tacked on. You can't expect Linc to walk in one day and say, "you know this contract really puts you guys behind the 8 ball, so I'll renegotiate in your favor". Let's at least hope the current powers that be are able to structure the next contract that is a bit more fair and rewards significant performance, not mediocre results.
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Post by gbbrl97 on Jun 2, 2020 9:02:13 GMT -6
I think one thing is clear to me about UWGB. For better or worse Dr. Alexander has a little more business man in him than we are probably used to for the leader of a public institution of higher learning. When I read his comments the first time about saving 50% I thought this guy is full of...but then I thought about it for a little bit. Now I don't approve of what happened to Linc. I especially don't like what that means for the 4 staff members. What I am about to write is coming from a perspective of we are not undoing what happened. As others have said the chancellor is operating from an opportunity cost perspective. If the new coach is more popular with fans and the community they will bring in money that they may not have with Linc. Yes Linc would have continued to be very competitive in league play. Yes donations into athletics are at the highest levels they have ever been. Dr. Alexander is telling you that we can get someone who can win just as much or more and that someone is going to bring in more money for the program. He is telling you he believes that person can bring in more than 720k over the next 3 years. Lets estimate the new coach can draw 500 more people per game and each person is worth a net of $10. That is $5000 per game x 15 games or $75,000. If they can get 1000 more people it is $150,000. That isn't impossible based on where this program was just 4 years ago attendance wise. If the community relates to the new coach and they bring in 250k per year or more this move makes sense. Again I don't think firing Linc is the move I would have made. However, these guys are running this like a business and telling us they couldn't afford not to make this move. They were leaving money on the table that outweighs the cost of two coaches for the next 3 years. We will have to check back in the spring of 2023 to see who was right. Good thought to ponder......The BIG variable in all of this is hiring the right person to win just as much or more, and bringing in that 720k or more over the next 3 years. If CG and Alexander screw this up, they will be gone (CG will probably be gone first).
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Post by uscg2012 on Feb 5, 2021 12:14:47 GMT -6
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