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Post by shooting the J on Feb 27, 2021 18:22:28 GMT -6
Cool, top half of the conference. If that’s all we strived for Linc would still have job. No way will we be “butt cheeks” the next two years. Amari was good but he wasn’t that good. Let’s let this off season shake out first before we rush to judgements. I hated 3-4th place finishes as much as anyone trust me but this team isn’t on Wright Sts level yet. Davis had them in the convo for a first round bye the next few years. He’s a game changing player. It wouldn’t surprise me if he went to a high major and starts. He is that good offensively. And he’s got 3 years left. My point was without Davis they aren’t going to be good. Will be worse than this year. If all of Ryan’s recruits hit, they will be really good in 3 years. Until then yikes. No need for concern, they'll be just fine next year. They'll bring in more talent, and the many freshman that played this year will take big leaps as sophomores. The defense will improve.
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Post by tsissicran on Feb 27, 2021 19:00:28 GMT -6
Bottom line, it's time to move on, wish all well, and focus on the players and recruits who want to be part of the program. Last spring the administration made a decision to go in another direction with the men's basketball program and at the same time, we were beginning one of the biggest real-world challenges in a century. (pandemic) The players and coaches dealt with obstacles -- athletically, academically, and personally. Heck, even the NCAA said everyone gets a free year after this season. I'll buy into that. I'm waiting patiently for the roster picture to settle in and look forward to re-assessing the Ryan Era as we go forward. As to the players from the Darner years, my only disappointment was an inability to recruit many local and high school players. No knock against the JUCO recruits or out of staters, I just think you build more interest with a coach who commits to being part of the community and coaches, staff, and players who would know how to spell and pronounce Ashwaubenon. Over the years there have been several local talents on the roster. In a perfect world wouldn't it be wonderful if every college could fill their roster with local players but how realistic is that if the goal is to be competitive. By the way, how many of the starters for the Badgers are from Wisconsin?
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Feb 27, 2021 19:33:24 GMT -6
A mid-major program like GB should be able to do well with state prep players. Look at the number of D1 recruits being produced in Wisconsin these days. Add in the upper midwest, the Nix nature recruiting area, and the occasional "coaching contact network" recruit and you should be able to fill the roster with four-year players. Again, nothing against JUCO athletes but when that is a dominant feature of your recruiting approach it has the potential to cause continuity and academic challenges. What kind of graduation rate and APR (Academic Progress Rate) does the GB men's program have over the past five or six years?
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Post by tsissicran on Feb 27, 2021 21:55:15 GMT -6
A mid-major program like GB should be able to do well with state prep players. Look at the number of D1 recruits being produced in Wisconsin these days. Add in the upper midwest, the Nix nature recruiting area, and the occasional "coaching contact network" recruit and you should be able to fill the roster with four-year players. Again, nothing against JUCO athletes but when that is a dominant feature of your recruiting approach it has the potential to cause continuity and academic challenges. What kind of graduation rate and APR (Academic Progress Rate) does the GB men's program have over the past five or six years? I am little disappointed you didn't take the time to research this. If you go to NCAA Coach APR Search you can put in the coach's name and find out the APR for a coach each year. Green Bay's APR under Darner was 1000, 980, 1000 and 962. His last season, 2019-2020, is not in there at this time. 1000 is a perfect score. I also went back to reference his press release in the Green Bay Gazette when he was terminated. He mentioned the high APR of his players and graduating his players at an extremely high rate.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 27, 2021 22:16:38 GMT -6
I don't have blind optimism. The Green Bay program has always been able to bring in talented players, I have no reason to believe that won't continue. Especially since this coaching staff mopped up on the high school recruiting in a very short time last summer. Additionally I see the current version of GB hoops as having a system that is easier to find players for, in particular given the natural recruiting territory of the program. As for what has happened so far, losing Amari is the only thing that hurts. Josh is a guy who was asked not to return to Illinois State, a program that is known by MVC fans to have no standards for on and off court issues told him see ya later. Then tried to leave GB last year. He finally gets on the court at GB and he turns out to be the co-worker who calls in sick right before his shift starts and then when he is there doesn't really do what he is asked. His hierarchy is: 1. Josh scores a lot and team wins 2. Josh scores a lot and team loses 3. Josh doesn't score a lot and team wins 4. Josh doesn't score a lot and team loses I am not broken up by his departure one bit. As for the other two guys they couldn't even beat out walk on players for playing time. They might be something in the future and I hope they are but damn if people are worried about winning right now those dudes aren't going to help. Between injuries, transfers working in late and dudes who were flat out not good enough this team was behind the ball to start. Yet they represented themselves well in 20 of the 21 HL games they played. Keeping the guys who want to be in GB and are willing and able to do the things that are necessary plus bringing in guys Will & Co. think are additive is the best recipe to quickly attaining sustained success for GB. I agree losing Amari is the only real loss so far but you brush it aside like it’s nothing. With him the next two years they would be in top half of conference. Now they are going to be pure butt checks the next two years. I will give Ryan 3 more years to turn this around before hitting the panic button. But these next two years are going to suck without Amari. I have written two nice posts about Amari in this thread already. Losing him is a loss that I am not brushing off. I think it sucks but he says he wants to move up and I don't begrudge him. However, I am of the opinion that somebody else will be able to score for GB. I don't know who or how yet but I am sure they will be able to get buckets. Perhaps not all of the buckets that Amari can get and in all of the ways he gets them but certainly a some of them. Amari was scoring 18ppg on 15 shots, that isn't super efficient. Now I will say part of that is he has to take tougher shots given the defense. I am hardly brushing it off, I would rather have him than not but this isn't the end of the world. Heck at some point he would have graduated, what would the program do then? Shutdown? No you regroup.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Feb 27, 2021 22:47:43 GMT -6
The new poster "tsissicran" seems to think I'm attacking coach Darner. Nothing can be further from the truth. I wish Darner well and realize his termination must have been extremely painful not only for him but his family. I raised the question about the APR because of the ongoing reliance on JUCO athletes and transfers. There are potential landmine issues with those who don't initially qualify. Over time it can be a dangerous balancing act. Again, I wish Darner and the rest of the staff future success and believe it is more likely than not. The administration at GB made a decision. I just wish there was more of a safety net for the entire staff. I am particularly cheering for Randall Herbst, I think he has the makings of an outstanding head coach.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 27, 2021 22:52:58 GMT -6
I don't have blind optimism. The Green Bay program has always been able to bring in talented players, I have no reason to believe that won't continue. Especially since this coaching staff mopped up on the high school recruiting in a very short time last summer. Additionally I see the current version of GB hoops as having a system that is easier to find players for, in particular given the natural recruiting territory of the program. As for what has happened so far, losing Amari is the only thing that hurts. Josh is a guy who was asked not to return to Illinois State, a program that is known by MVC fans to have no standards for on and off court issues told him see ya later. Then tried to leave GB last year. He finally gets on the court at GB and he turns out to be the co-worker who calls in sick right before his shift starts and then when he is there doesn't really do what he is asked. His hierarchy is: 1. Josh scores a lot and team wins 2. Josh scores a lot and team loses 3. Josh doesn't score a lot and team wins 4. Josh doesn't score a lot and team loses I am not broken up by his departure one bit. As for the other two guys they couldn't even beat out walk on players for playing time. They might be something in the future and I hope they are but damn if people are worried about winning right now those dudes aren't going to help. Between injuries, transfers working in late and dudes who were flat out not good enough this team was behind the ball to start. Yet they represented themselves well in 20 of the 21 HL games they played. Keeping the guys who want to be in GB and are willing and able to do the things that are necessary plus bringing in guys Will & Co. think are additive is the best recipe to quickly attaining sustained success for GB. I have read this numerous time and I am still in disbelief at what you have written. What is this talk of Josh calling in sick before work? Thought he was injured? Your statement and the information you shared concerning Illinois State make it sound like you either know someone or you work in the athletic office. If so how unprofessional of you to share that info. Apparently the old staff was unable to recruit based on your additional comments so I am not sure how this team managed to win 8 games with players who were flat out not good enough. Your comments were totally uncalled for. I don't work for the athletic department and keep my distance for the most part. That allows me to call things like I see them on this board. I have the same information everyone has. In the YSU series, for whatever reason Josh was suspended for part of the game. When he actually played it didn't go well and after a couple of mistakes he was benched after only playing 12 minutes. The next day he couldn't play. Maybe he was too hurt. From what I can see we are dealing with a guy who's body language was bad when he was subbed out. We are dealing with a guy who doesn't get back after making a mistake. We are dealing with a guy who had a highlight video made and was circulating it on social media before the season even ended. The dude was in portal less than 18 hours after the season ended. I've been around a little bit and I have my opinion which is he calls in sick to work once in awhile. I said he wasn't welcomed back to ISU, I didn't say and don't know why. I had to read it several times given your close ties to Coach Darner, by questioning what I wrote it seems you are confirming there was an issue at Illinois State. Since you are in the know, should I ask who is unprofessional now? I am a college hoops fan that pays attention to more than just GB. I know ISU is one of the least disciplined teams on and off the court in the MVC, that is common knowledge. With 13 scholarships to use GB had the two freshman who are now in the portal after playing 26 combined minutes and Miles on scholarship. They started the year with Blayton getting injured and being out for the season (a talented looking player no doubt). They had two guys in Moore and Ansong that were expected to sit out due to transfer rules. This team started with only 7 active guys on scholarship and 4 of them had never played a D1 game (TT, Kellogg, Paris and Cem). So yeah I do think it was a tough spot to start regardless of who recruited these players. Coach Darner has brought in plenty of talent over the years but like any coach he had misses too and you shouldn't pretend like he didn't.
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Post by tsissicran on Feb 28, 2021 0:07:52 GMT -6
I have read this numerous time and I am still in disbelief at what you have written. What is this talk of Josh calling in sick before work? Thought he was injured? Your statement and the information you shared concerning Illinois State make it sound like you either know someone or you work in the athletic office. If so how unprofessional of you to share that info. Apparently the old staff was unable to recruit based on your additional comments so I am not sure how this team managed to win 8 games with players who were flat out not good enough. Your comments were totally uncalled for. I don't work for the athletic department and keep my distance for the most part. That allows me to call things like I see them on this board. I have the same information everyone has. In the YSU series, for whatever reason Josh was suspended for part of the game. When he actually played it didn't go well and after a couple of mistakes he was benched after only playing 12 minutes. The next day he couldn't play. Maybe he was too hurt. From what I can see we are dealing with a guy who's body language was bad when he was subbed out. We are dealing with a guy who doesn't get back after making a mistake. We are dealing with a guy who had a highlight video made and was circulating it on social media before the season even ended. The dude was in portal less than 18 hours after the season ended. I've been around a little bit and I have my opinion which is he calls in sick to work once in awhile. I said he wasn't welcomed back to ISU, I didn't say and don't know why. I had to read it several times given your close ties to Coach Darner, by questioning what I wrote it seems you are confirming there was an issue at Illinois State. Since you are in the know, should I ask who is unprofessional now? I am a college hoops fan that pays attention to more than just GB. I know ISU is one of the least disciplined teams on and off the court in the MVC, that is common knowledge. With 13 scholarships to use GB had the two freshman who are now in the portal after playing 26 combined minutes and Miles on scholarship. They started the year with Blayton getting injured and being out for the season (a talented looking player no doubt). They had two guys in Moore and Ansong that were expected to sit out due to transfer rules. This team started with only 7 active guys on scholarship and 4 of them had never played a D1 game (TT, Kellogg, Paris and Cem). So yeah I do think it was a tough spot to start regardless of who recruited these players. Coach Darner has brought in plenty of talent over the years but like any coach he had misses too and you shouldn't pretend like he didn't. Your words were "Josh is a guy who was asked not to return to Illinois State". Your words.. So are you saying everything you stated was just speculation? Since you said those words and then spoke of the problems within the program. You may not of said why but my point was how would you even know he was asked to not come back. Sorry, I do not follow all the different programs the way you do, I do not have the time. I would not think programs would just announce when they are not asking a player to return.
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Post by tsissicran on Feb 28, 2021 0:13:45 GMT -6
The new poster "tsissicran" seems to think I'm attacking coach Darner. Nothing can be further from the truth. I wish Darner well and realize his termination must have been extremely painful not only for him but his family. I raised the question about the APR because of the ongoing reliance on JUCO athletes and transfers. There are potential landmine issues with those who don't initially qualify. Over time it can be a dangerous balancing act. Again, I wish Darner and the rest of the staff future success and believe it is more likely than not. The administration at GB made a decision. I just wish there was more of a safety net for the entire staff. I am particularly cheering for Randall Herbst, I think he was the makings of an outstanding head coach. Not at all. You specifically mentioned the years Darner coached and that is why I found the information. Very easy to locate.
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Post by uscg2012 on Feb 28, 2021 5:54:56 GMT -6
Kamari McGee’s squad is moving onto state while Cade and Braydens are going home.
What a heck of a recruiting class we have coming in.
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Post by shooting the J on Feb 28, 2021 9:50:38 GMT -6
A lot here love Amari Davis, as the PPG stat jumps off the page. However, advanced stats say he's nowhere near our best player, and was actually a net negative on the court. A 50 True Shooting % didn't help. Advanced stats say Ansong was our best player, followed by Pipes.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on Feb 28, 2021 10:24:41 GMT -6
Every coach needs players who fit their system. It's a disservice to both the coach and the player if the fit is wrong. I see what is happening in the past few days as a balancing that benefits all parties. This is an important offseason where Ryan and his staff will be fully able to implement their system.
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Post by cuchillo on Feb 28, 2021 12:17:37 GMT -6
Can't we all just get along?
At this point, what Darner did or didn't do only matters from the standpoint of Ryan reshaping the roster to fit his system. I don't know why anyone is surprised so many players are leaving.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 28, 2021 13:43:00 GMT -6
I don't work for the athletic department and keep my distance for the most part. That allows me to call things like I see them on this board. I have the same information everyone has. In the YSU series, for whatever reason Josh was suspended for part of the game. When he actually played it didn't go well and after a couple of mistakes he was benched after only playing 12 minutes. The next day he couldn't play. Maybe he was too hurt. From what I can see we are dealing with a guy who's body language was bad when he was subbed out. We are dealing with a guy who doesn't get back after making a mistake. We are dealing with a guy who had a highlight video made and was circulating it on social media before the season even ended. The dude was in portal less than 18 hours after the season ended. I've been around a little bit and I have my opinion which is he calls in sick to work once in awhile. I said he wasn't welcomed back to ISU, I didn't say and don't know why. I had to read it several times given your close ties to Coach Darner, by questioning what I wrote it seems you are confirming there was an issue at Illinois State. Since you are in the know, should I ask who is unprofessional now? I am a college hoops fan that pays attention to more than just GB. I know ISU is one of the least disciplined teams on and off the court in the MVC, that is common knowledge. With 13 scholarships to use GB had the two freshman who are now in the portal after playing 26 combined minutes and Miles on scholarship. They started the year with Blayton getting injured and being out for the season (a talented looking player no doubt). They had two guys in Moore and Ansong that were expected to sit out due to transfer rules. This team started with only 7 active guys on scholarship and 4 of them had never played a D1 game (TT, Kellogg, Paris and Cem). So yeah I do think it was a tough spot to start regardless of who recruited these players. Coach Darner has brought in plenty of talent over the years but like any coach he had misses too and you shouldn't pretend like he didn't. Your words were "Josh is a guy who was asked not to return to Illinois State". Your words.. So are you saying everything you stated was just speculation? Since you said those words and then spoke of the problems within the program. You may not of said why but my point was how would you even know he was asked to not come back. Sorry, I do not follow all the different programs the way you do, I do not have the time. I would not think programs would just announce when they are not asking a player to return. For someone who is a GB fan you apparently don't have enough time to find the public information either. From the GBPG article when he joined: With the Redbirds losing almost all their top scorers from a team that went 17-16 in 2018-19, Jefferson was asked why he decided to leave when it would appear he would have a role again as a senior. “I don’t really have an answer for that one,” he said. “I am just going to focus on Green Bay.” www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2019/04/27/uwgb-men-phoenix-lands-illinois-state-transfer/3598684002/From the Pantagraph: Muller said Jefferson needs "to play better than the other guys and he has to have a better attitude" to earn more court time. "The truth is Josh was a better game player than he was a practice player when he was playing well, and it caught up with him," said Muller. "You get to this point of the year and OK doesn't just get you minutes because you're a nice guy. You have to play well and play better than other guys and be consistent over a bunch of days in practice." www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-state/isu-evansville-square-off-for-second-time-in-two-weeks/article_2dd7f263-64bf-524d-8a64-233ca9382e88.htmlSo I will say ask again as a confidant of Coach Darner, who's the unprofessional one airing dirty laundry? As they say in sports talk radio I will hang up and listen.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on Feb 28, 2021 13:48:21 GMT -6
Can't we all just get along? At this point, what Darner did or didn't do only matters from the standpoint of Ryan reshaping the roster to fit his system. I don't know why anyone is surprised so many players are leaving. This is a fair question to ask given a few of my posts in the last 24 hours. Coach Darner appears to have someone close to him that comes on here and other social media to rip on GB and defend anything related to Coach Darner. On here it is under the guise of a GB fan but really they are just trying to throw shade at the program. If you are a real fan and worried about GB that is totally fair. If you are just trying to bring something down over a personal grudge I won't have any of that.
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