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Post by Panther on May 11, 2021 10:35:20 GMT -6
Much is made of the tempo Coach Ryan wants to play at. Much is made of anything that didn’t work after the fact. Players may prefer to play faster but it is not out of line to say that Coach Darner played about as fast as you could and he didn’t exactly mop on the recruiting front. Honestly he was horrible with in state recruiting and this state has produced a lot of high level mid major players who do it for teams that aren’t racing up and down the court and taking the first available shot. Right, wrong or otherwise Badgers basketball and that culture is deeply engrained in players in this state. Guys from this state are not opposed to playing under control, to some extent it is what they know as that style goes deep to the early ages of grass roots hoops in this state. Beyond that I believe that there are players out there that want to win more than anything and will figure out tempo later. Green Bay was #285 in tempo last season. By comparison San Diego State, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Oregon State, St Bonaventure, Maryland, Grand Canyon, Houston, Villanova, UCLA, Loyola Chicago, Wisconsin, Liberty, North Texas, Mount St Mary’s, UC Santa Barbara, Morehead State, UConn, Clemson and Virginia are all teams that made the tournament last year that played at a slower tempo than GB. Louisville, Dayton, New Mexico State, St Mary’s, Davidson, Indiana, Wofford, Mississippi State, Montana, Kansas State, Mississippi, and NKU are other notable teams that played slower than GB. The strategy is get your guys, teach what you believe and let the results show if it works or not. I have no reason to believe it won’t work once Coach has guys that want to play his way. I see other good programs having success playing slower and getting players. Efficiency > tempo Point made, however, all the teams mentioned get better players... Time will tell if it works or not but can you get the level of players to make it work ? I don't see it working if you can't get the players with the right level of basketball abilities...
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Post by Panther on May 11, 2021 10:44:13 GMT -6
I am not going to pretend that giving Lucas a scholarship and then bringing in Tucker, Ivory, Listau and one more mystery player is what I had in mind when the season ended in February. I am not that worried though either. Coach Ryan doesn’t go after ball hogs, volume shooters and guys that have a low assist to turnover ratio. In addition he seems careful about guys that have bounced around a lot. The rest of the league seems willing to take some chances on guys and that may or may not work out for them. While the portal hasn’t given GB what I had in mind, it has given GB guys who are likely to fit what coach wants. Based on what I am seeing I don’t think the rest of the league is getting way better and GB is just spinning its wheels. For reference here is what the rest of the Horizon League landed via the transfer portal so far. Wright State: Riley Voss F from Cornell 3.4ppg 2.3 rpg Oakland: Jamal Cain F from Marquette 9.6ppg 6.3 rpg (4 year career avg 5.2& 3.9) UIC: Brandon Battle F from Alabama State 11.6ppg 7.7rpg Demaria Franklin G from Tenn Tech 13.3ppg 43%FG 30.4%3FG NKU: Seybian Sims G/F from North Dakota 6.3ppg 4.3 rpg Chris Brandon F from Detroit Mercy 5.2ppg 6.0rpg Detroit Mercy: Kevin McAdoo G from Bradley 6.0ppg 33.6%FG 24.1%3FG (Avg 8.6ppg at EMU prior to Bradley) DJ Harvey F from Vanderbilt 6.3ppg 2.9rpg (was at Notre Dame for first two years) Jordan Phillips F from Texas Arlington 7.4ppg 2.7rpg (was at Arkansas for a year) Milwaukee: Samba Kane C from San Francisco 2.7ppg 2.2rpg (was at Illinois for a year) Vincent Miszkiewicz F from D2 Purdue Northwest 12.3ppg 11.5rpg (6.5ppg 7.2rpg at Incarnate Word as a Freshman) Cleveland State: Broc Finstuen G from Pacific 11.2ppg 5.7rpg 49.7%fg 33.3%3FG Nathanael Jack G from Florida State 3.5ppg 41.4%fg 35.4%3FG Robert Morris: Ferron Flavors G from Oklahoma State 3.4ppg 31.5%FG 26%3FG (Cal Baptist 13.4ppg and 12.3ppg at Fairfield) Rasheen Dunn G from St John’s 9.4ppg 41.2%fg .156%3FG 87 assists to 52 turnovers (DNP for Cleveland State and averaged13ppg and 15ppg at St Francis Brooklyn) Michael Green G from Bryant 16ppg 37.3%fg 32.5%3fg 3.1 assists to 2.4 turnovers per game Justin Winston F from St. Bonaventure career 8.3ppg 3.3rpg Brandon Stone F from LaSalle 3ppg 2.6rpg 36.3%fg Mattia Acunzo F from Toledo 5.9ppg 3.5rpg 52.9%fg 40.5%3FG PFW: Damion Chong Qui G from Mount St Mary’s 15.1ppg 37.5%FG 33.6%3FG 4.2rpg 123 assists to 61 turnovers RJ Ogom F from Charleston No stats, redshirt his only season YSU: Tevin Olison G from NAIA U of Cumberlands 23ppg 5rpg 51.7%fg 41.5%3FG Dwayne Cohill G from Dayton 3ppg Owen Long G from D2 Maryville 19.3ppg 47%fg 42.3%3fg 4.5rpg Chris Shelton G from Hampton 9.8ppg 49.2%fg 48.6%3FG Since the weather has me depressed and not wanting to golf much outside, I have time... Compared to what you listed not mentioning what some of the school have coming back with good experience already... GB 2021-22 Rooster Name, Position, Previous School, Note Japannah Kellogg III, F, GB, Returner with great upside - 2nd year in Ryan system but got pushed around guarding his position on defense Blayton Williams, G, GB - Juco, Returner who was injured - No stats in last 2 years… Lucas Stieber, G, GB - ( Previous Walk-on), Returner Cem Kirciman, F, GB, Returner who could add some help but seem to not be the coaches favorite for some reason Ryan Claflin, F, GB ( Walk-on), Returner who showed signs but again, was terrible at guarding his position Colin Schaefer, G, GB ( Walk-on), Returner who played his roll but can he get more time or just a guy to give you 5 minutes a game Emmanuel Ansong, F, GB - Came with Coach, Returner who flat athletic and nose for the ball escalated him, can he continue with teams preparing to stop him Donavan Moore, G, GB - Toledo, Returner who has good size but was limited by injury. Played 8 games at Toledo as a Freshman. Kamari McGee, G, High School, Incoming Freshman Brayden Dailey, F, High School, Incoming Freshman Cade Meyer, F, High School, Incoming Freshman Randy Tucker, G, Juco, Played in 33 games with a 6.1 ppg for his Juco year with good shooting percentages Nate Jenkins, G, Iowa State ( 2 Yr Walk-On), Action in 18 games over 2 years with virtually no stats Donavan Ivory, G, Umass, Boise State ( Walk-On), Action in 6 games over 2 year and 2 schools Mitch Listau, G, Belmont, 3 yrs at Belmont which included a Redshirt year. Played in 19 games but was injured most of the year. 3 ppg while shooting a good percentage.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 11, 2021 11:39:08 GMT -6
Much is made of the tempo Coach Ryan wants to play at. Much is made of anything that didn’t work after the fact. Players may prefer to play faster but it is not out of line to say that Coach Darner played about as fast as you could and he didn’t exactly mop on the recruiting front. Honestly he was horrible with in state recruiting and this state has produced a lot of high level mid major players who do it for teams that aren’t racing up and down the court and taking the first available shot. Right, wrong or otherwise Badgers basketball and that culture is deeply engrained in players in this state. Guys from this state are not opposed to playing under control, to some extent it is what they know as that style goes deep to the early ages of grass roots hoops in this state. Beyond that I believe that there are players out there that want to win more than anything and will figure out tempo later. Green Bay was #285 in tempo last season. By comparison San Diego State, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech, Oregon State, St Bonaventure, Maryland, Grand Canyon, Houston, Villanova, UCLA, Loyola Chicago, Wisconsin, Liberty, North Texas, Mount St Mary’s, UC Santa Barbara, Morehead State, UConn, Clemson and Virginia are all teams that made the tournament last year that played at a slower tempo than GB. Louisville, Dayton, New Mexico State, St Mary’s, Davidson, Indiana, Wofford, Mississippi State, Montana, Kansas State, Mississippi, and NKU are other notable teams that played slower than GB. The strategy is get your guys, teach what you believe and let the results show if it works or not. I have no reason to believe it won’t work once Coach has guys that want to play his way. I see other good programs having success playing slower and getting players. Efficiency > tempo Point made, however, all the teams mentioned get better players... Time will tell if it works or not but can you get the level of players to make it work ? I don't see it working if you can't get the players with the right level of basketball abilities... I agree that you have to get the players that fit and have the skills. That is true for whatever system is being run. The state of Wisconsin is loaded with highly skilled mid major players moving forward. I think it is possible to continue to get the right type of guys. Davidson or Loyola or Liberty for example had to build their foundation just like GB is trying to do now.
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Post by GBPhoenix1 on May 11, 2021 11:51:16 GMT -6
To keep the thread from being too long I won't quote it. I don't disagree with the roster break down for GB listed above. I am not going to tell anyone that this roster is loaded and they don't know what they are talking about. This roster is filled with guys who might be really good but need to prove it first.
I posted that information as a reference and possible reset of expectations. I know I needed that. The league for the most part didn't exactly get a bunch of guys via the portal that you can say are for sure additive to winning.
On an overall roster projection GB didn't lose that much if any ground on incoming transfers compared to the league. They lost more ground via outgoing transfer compared to the league. Most of the guys they retained are Horizon League level contributors. They have one of the 3 best if not the best high school class coming in. Time will tell what that means overall but it is a fair subject to discuss.
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Post by thetulsawarrior on May 11, 2021 12:08:42 GMT -6
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on May 11, 2021 12:21:55 GMT -6
They lost 8 or 9 guys I thought they couldn’t lose anymore but Detroit girls basketball lost 13 players it could of been worse they could of lost everybody. Which sounds how is it possible but it’s possible it would of been a bad thing to lose everybody.
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Post by Panther on May 11, 2021 12:23:16 GMT -6
They lost 8 or 9 guys I thought they couldn’t lose anymore but Detroit girls basketball lost 13 players it could of been worse they could of lost everybody. Which sounds how is it possible but it’s possible it would of been a bad thing to lose everybody. Wow... Crazy...
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on May 11, 2021 12:29:38 GMT -6
What that losing everyone would be bad?
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Post by yayphoenixyay on May 11, 2021 12:51:08 GMT -6
To keep the thread from being too long I won't quote it. I don't disagree with the roster break down for GB listed above. I am not going to tell anyone that this roster is loaded and they don't know what they are talking about. This roster is filled with guys who might be really good but need to prove it first. I posted that information as a reference and possible reset of expectations. I know I needed that. The league for the most part didn't exactly get a bunch of guys via the portal that you can say are for sure additive to winning. On an overall roster projection GB didn't lose that much if any ground on incoming transfers compared to the league. They lost more ground via outgoing transfer compared to the league. Most of the guys they retained are Horizon League level contributors. They have one of the 3 best if not the best high school class coming in. Time will tell what that means overall but it is a fair subject to discuss. I think one of the issues, here, is that there seems to be this assumption from some that every returning player will magically take a step forward and be better next year. That’s not always the case, hence why trying to always find these “diamonds in the rough” or landing transfers who were there to clear the bench in blowouts at other schools isn’t always the best idea. You can’t always turn a prospect into gold.
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Post by shooting the J on May 11, 2021 13:46:28 GMT -6
To keep the thread from being too long I won't quote it. I don't disagree with the roster break down for GB listed above. I am not going to tell anyone that this roster is loaded and they don't know what they are talking about. This roster is filled with guys who might be really good but need to prove it first. I posted that information as a reference and possible reset of expectations. I know I needed that. The league for the most part didn't exactly get a bunch of guys via the portal that you can say are for sure additive to winning. On an overall roster projection GB didn't lose that much if any ground on incoming transfers compared to the league. They lost more ground via outgoing transfer compared to the league. Most of the guys they retained are Horizon League level contributors. They have one of the 3 best if not the best high school class coming in. Time will tell what that means overall but it is a fair subject to discuss. I think one of the issues, here, is that there seems to be this assumption from some that every returning player will magically take a step forward and be better next year. That’s not always the case, hence why trying to always find these “diamonds in the rough” or landing transfers who were there to clear the bench in blowouts at other schools isn’t always the best idea. You can’t always turn a prospect into gold. Yes, that's why landing a great group of high school talent was huge last fall.
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Post by shooting the J on May 11, 2021 13:48:37 GMT -6
I am not going to pretend that giving Lucas a scholarship and then bringing in Tucker, Ivory, Listau and one more mystery player is what I had in mind when the season ended in February. I am not that worried though either. Coach Ryan doesn’t go after ball hogs, volume shooters and guys that have a low assist to turnover ratio. In addition he seems careful about guys that have bounced around a lot. The rest of the league seems willing to take some chances on guys and that may or may not work out for them. While the portal hasn’t given GB what I had in mind, it has given GB guys who are likely to fit what coach wants. Based on what I am seeing I don’t think the rest of the league is getting way better and GB is just spinning its wheels. For reference here is what the rest of the Horizon League landed via the transfer portal so far. Wright State: Riley Voss F from Cornell 3.4ppg 2.3 rpg Oakland: Jamal Cain F from Marquette 9.6ppg 6.3 rpg (4 year career avg 5.2& 3.9) UIC: Brandon Battle F from Alabama State 11.6ppg 7.7rpg Demaria Franklin G from Tenn Tech 13.3ppg 43%FG 30.4%3FG NKU: Seybian Sims G/F from North Dakota 6.3ppg 4.3 rpg Chris Brandon F from Detroit Mercy 5.2ppg 6.0rpg Detroit Mercy: Kevin McAdoo G from Bradley 6.0ppg 33.6%FG 24.1%3FG (Avg 8.6ppg at EMU prior to Bradley) DJ Harvey F from Vanderbilt 6.3ppg 2.9rpg (was at Notre Dame for first two years) Jordan Phillips F from Texas Arlington 7.4ppg 2.7rpg (was at Arkansas for a year) Milwaukee: Samba Kane C from San Francisco 2.7ppg 2.2rpg (was at Illinois for a year) Vincent Miszkiewicz F from D2 Purdue Northwest 12.3ppg 11.5rpg (6.5ppg 7.2rpg at Incarnate Word as a Freshman) Cleveland State: Broc Finstuen G from Pacific 11.2ppg 5.7rpg 49.7%fg 33.3%3FG Nathanael Jack G from Florida State 3.5ppg 41.4%fg 35.4%3FG Robert Morris: Ferron Flavors G from Oklahoma State 3.4ppg 31.5%FG 26%3FG (Cal Baptist 13.4ppg and 12.3ppg at Fairfield) Rasheen Dunn G from St John’s 9.4ppg 41.2%fg .156%3FG 87 assists to 52 turnovers (DNP for Cleveland State and averaged13ppg and 15ppg at St Francis Brooklyn) Michael Green G from Bryant 16ppg 37.3%fg 32.5%3fg 3.1 assists to 2.4 turnovers per game Justin Winston F from St. Bonaventure career 8.3ppg 3.3rpg Brandon Stone F from LaSalle 3ppg 2.6rpg 36.3%fg Mattia Acunzo F from Toledo 5.9ppg 3.5rpg 52.9%fg 40.5%3FG PFW: Damion Chong Qui G from Mount St Mary’s 15.1ppg 37.5%FG 33.6%3FG 4.2rpg 123 assists to 61 turnovers RJ Ogom F from Charleston No stats, redshirt his only season YSU: Tevin Olison G from NAIA U of Cumberlands 23ppg 5rpg 51.7%fg 41.5%3FG Dwayne Cohill G from Dayton 3ppg Owen Long G from D2 Maryville 19.3ppg 47%fg 42.3%3fg 4.5rpg Chris Shelton G from Hampton 9.8ppg 49.2%fg 48.6%3FG Since the weather has me depressed and not wanting to golf much outside, I have time... Compared to what you listed not mentioning what some of the school have coming back with good experience already... GB 2021-22 Rooster Name, Position, Previous School, Note Japannah Kellogg III, F, GB, Returner with great upside - 2nd year in Ryan system but got pushed around guarding his position on defense Blayton Williams, G, GB - Juco, Returner who was injured - No stats in last 2 years… Lucas Stieber, G, GB - ( Previous Walk-on), Returner Cem Kirciman, F, GB, Returner who could add some help but seem to not be the coaches favorite for some reason Ryan Claflin, F, GB ( Walk-on), Returner who showed signs but again, was terrible at guarding his position Colin Schaefer, G, GB ( Walk-on), Returner who played his roll but can he get more time or just a guy to give you 5 minutes a game Emmanuel Ansong, F, GB - Came with Coach, Returner who flat athletic and nose for the ball escalated him, can he continue with teams preparing to stop him Donavan Moore, G, GB - Toledo, Returner who has good size but was limited by injury. Played 8 games at Toledo as a Freshman. Kamari McGee, G, High School, Incoming Freshman Brayden Dailey, F, High School, Incoming Freshman Cade Meyer, F, High School, Incoming Freshman Randy Tucker, G, Juco, Played in 33 games with a 6.1 ppg for his Juco year with good shooting percentages Nate Jenkins, G, Iowa State ( 2 Yr Walk-On), Action in 18 games over 2 years with virtually no stats Donavan Ivory, G, Umass, Boise State ( Walk-On), Action in 6 games over 2 year and 2 schools Also add scholarship transfer Mitch Listau to the list, from Belmont. Highly thought of player when coming out of high school, and perfect fit for the system.
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Post by Panther on May 11, 2021 14:13:53 GMT -6
Since the weather has me depressed and not wanting to golf much outside, I have time... Compared to what you listed not mentioning what some of the school have coming back with good experience already... GB 2021-22 Rooster Name, Position, Previous School, Note Japannah Kellogg III, F, GB, Returner with great upside - 2nd year in Ryan system but got pushed around guarding his position on defense Blayton Williams, G, GB - Juco, Returner who was injured - No stats in last 2 years… Lucas Stieber, G, GB - ( Previous Walk-on), Returner Cem Kirciman, F, GB, Returner who could add some help but seem to not be the coaches favorite for some reason Ryan Claflin, F, GB ( Walk-on), Returner who showed signs but again, was terrible at guarding his position Colin Schaefer, G, GB ( Walk-on), Returner who played his roll but can he get more time or just a guy to give you 5 minutes a game Emmanuel Ansong, F, GB - Came with Coach, Returner who flat athletic and nose for the ball escalated him, can he continue with teams preparing to stop him Donavan Moore, G, GB - Toledo, Returner who has good size but was limited by injury. Played 8 games at Toledo as a Freshman. Kamari McGee, G, High School, Incoming Freshman Brayden Dailey, F, High School, Incoming Freshman Cade Meyer, F, High School, Incoming Freshman Randy Tucker, G, Juco, Played in 33 games with a 6.1 ppg for his Juco year with good shooting percentages Nate Jenkins, G, Iowa State ( 2 Yr Walk-On), Action in 18 games over 2 years with virtually no stats Donavan Ivory, G, Umass, Boise State ( Walk-On), Action in 6 games over 2 year and 2 schools Also add scholarship transfer Mitch Listau to the list, from Belmont. Highly thought of player when coming out of high school, and perfect fit for the system. Mitch Listau, G, Belmont, 3 yrs at Belmont which included a Redshirt year. Played in 19 games but was injured most of the year. 3 ppg while shooting a good percentage.
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tdef
New Member
Posts: 12
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Post by tdef on May 11, 2021 14:50:03 GMT -6
So now Green Bay is getting talent like Tony Bennett ? Also, it’s interesting how Tony Bennett did it again. So we go back to something that took 10 years and yet you fire coaches after 3. I believe Bennett was hired in 2009 at Virginia. What are you talking about? Linc was not fired after 3 years. Tony Bennett kept his job by elevating there program, Linc sent Green Bay backwards. Linc was fired after a losing season when you take out the D3 wins. Whether you liked Linc or not we know why he was fired! Also, if your gonna take out D3 games then you have to take out the Power 5 games. Both are blessing/curses for most low/mid majors. Especially in the horizon league.
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Post by Former uwgb men’s manager will on May 11, 2021 16:23:05 GMT -6
At least uwgb out there name in the hat for Jordan McCabe and Marlon Ruffin and Jacob Ognacevic maybe they still get Ruffin that would be great. But he wouldn’t make them a lot better because he’s one guy they would need more guys like him to be a lot better.
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Post by shooting the J on May 11, 2021 18:09:45 GMT -6
What are you talking about? Linc was not fired after 3 years. Tony Bennett kept his job by elevating there program, Linc sent Green Bay backwards. Linc was fired after a losing season when you take out the D3 wins. Whether you liked Linc or not we know why he was fired! Also, if your gonna take out D3 games then you have to take out the Power 5 games. Both are blessing/curses for most low/mid majors. Especially in the horizon league. Why take out the power 5 games? Before Linc, Green Bay routinely won power 5 games! Also before Linc, Green Bay didn't play D3 games.
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